Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 (Tek) 9/28/84 based on 9/17/84; site hammer.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!pesnta!pyramid!decwrl!decvax!tektronix!orca!hammer!hutch From: hutch@hammer.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) Newsgroups: net.sf-lovers Subject: Re: Feminism & SF: Comments from Brett Slocum Message-ID: <1716@hammer.UUCP> Date: Thu, 19-Dec-85 18:14:29 EST Article-I.D.: hammer.1716 Posted: Thu Dec 19 18:14:29 1985 Date-Received: Sat, 21-Dec-85 19:08:05 EST References: <743@caip.RUTGERS.EDU> Reply-To: hutch@hammer.UUCP (Stephen Hutchison) Organization: Tektronix, Wilsonville OR Lines: 68 Summary: Some martial arts techniques work better than others In article <743@caip.RUTGERS.EDU> AI.ARISTAR@MCC.ARPA writes: >From: Anthony Aristar >>In regards to the woman vs. Goliath combat, have you ever seen what a 5' >>6" martial artist can do against a group of the most awesome brawlers with >>weapons? I have, and I treat them with respect (male or female). > >The Martial arts I know something about: I was involved with them for about >ten years at an earlier stage of my life. I have only these comments. A >Martial Arts contest is far more like ballet or gymnastics than a real >fight. Some martial arts contests are more like ballet or gymnastics. However, this has something to do with the nature of the art. Some forms of karate don't emphasize fast kicks, to appropriate targets (knees and ankles are good) and as a result, are less effective. > But the best kept secret in the field is this: >none of this matters in real violence unless you have the reach to get past >your opponent's defence, and even very scientifically placed blows need to >contain a considerable degree of force to be effective against a powerful, >aggressive opponent. One of the features of jeet kune do, the style developed by Bruce Lee, is that when your opponent sticks his arms or legs out at you, where you can get at them, you take advantage of it by hurting them. Reach is only relevant when you decide to try to hit the internal body, which requires that you actually do the incredibly stupid thing of attacking. >The only real fight I've ever seen between a >martial-arts trained woman and an untrained but aggressive man was resolved >in a brutish but effective manner -- he used his hands to keep her away, >(she hurt him quite a bit, incidentally, in the meantime), then he grappled >her, and fell on her. The only woman I can conceive of winning such a >fight would be some kind of androgyne. When I was studying at the Berkeley AiKiDo Club, an anecdote was being passed around about a woman who had been a member a few years earlier. She had studied for two years. Her job as a welfare social worker took her into some pretty horrid neighborhoods in Oakland, and she was accosted one day by a gang of five or six teenagers ranging from 14 to 16 years of age. She, a slight little 5'2" 110 lb waif, patiently warned the lead boy that she would not allow him to hurt her with his switchblade, and when he lunged, she applied a technique which left him on the ground, her with his knife folded up in her pocket. The gang was completely astonished and one of the others, who had studied karate, tried an attack; she returned him to his friends. Oddly enough, the kids were so impressed by this that she was able to talk them into joining an AiKiDo school in the area, where they learned the non-violent philosophy of that art BEFORE the teacher gave them any of the techniques. I am a 6 foot, 200+ lb male, not particularly puny. One day the 5 year old son of one of the brown-belts was visiting, and I was allowed to practice with him. The kid was easily able to throw me, to apply the redirection techniques, and so forth. I was using just as much force in my attacks as I did with his father. The only area where his smaller size prevented him from applying the techniques was in some of the wrist locks, where he couldn't reach around my wrist properly. So, he couldn't really apply the immobilizations effectively. >So my earlier comment stands: SF >with women eminently successful at violence is (do I dare use this word >here?) fantasy. That depends completely on the woman, on her fighting style, and on the nature of the writing. As far as (for instance) Japanese sword styles, your earlier comment remains completely bogus. Hutch