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From: moiram@tektronix.UUCP (Moira Mallison )
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: What is a friend?
Message-ID: <6030@tektronix.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 11-Dec-85 14:31:20 EST
Article-I.D.: tektroni.6030
Posted: Wed Dec 11 14:31:20 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 13-Dec-85 08:23:57 EST
References: <2359@umcp-cs.UUCP> <226@unirot.UUCP>
Reply-To: moiram@tektronix.UUCP (Moira Mallison )
Organization: Tektronix, Beaverton OR
Lines: 50
Summary: 

In article <226@unirot.UUCP> pooh@unirot.UUCP (Pooh) writes:
>
>My point is that you CANNOT force help on someone who doesn't want it.
>No matter how nicely you phrase it, going to someone and saying, "Look,
>you're making a mess of your life" is not going to do anything unless
>that person a) wants help, or b) is open-minded enough to look at it
>and say, "Gosh, you're right--thanks for telling me."
>
>Bruce, your concern for a friend is all good and well, but I find that
>people who have gone through a life-fixing seminar tread a very thin
>line between caring and proselytizing.  Suddenly you realize that your
>life is working better than you ever thought it could, and everywhere
>you see signs of people whose lives aren't working. 

Wendy, it seems to me that you are seeing things as very BLACK and 
WHITE.  Bruce hasn't said anything about FORCING help on anyone. 
I have good friends of both types you suggest.  There are the ones
that I go out and have good times with; there has been some bonding
through giving and recieving support through traumas such as divorce,
death of a loved one, being in an auto accident together.  They are
more than casual friends....yet, when I just feel like I want to 
talk about what I'm feeling as I go through hard times, I don't ask
these people for much help.  I do look to them to take me "out of
myself".

But the people I look to when I feel a need for help are exactly the
people who have offered their *opinions* when I didn't perceive a
need.  Because I have that background of being very open with them,
and I know that it is safe.  Its not something I want to go testing
when I'm feeling vulnerable. I'm *always* looking to grow, and if 
someone sees a contradiction in my words and actions  (which is how
it seems it usually comes up), then their *perception* is something
for me to look at.  What is important is that the "advice" is given
with the expectation that I will consider it and either choose to 
act on it, or just say "thanks for your vote".

I will say the same thing to you that I said to Chuq when he spouted
off about est-holes last year.  Your sample is skewed.  You are basing
your judgements on people who have let it be known in a very upfront
way that they have taken a "life-fixing" seminar.  These *are* people
who's life has changed in a very profound way, and want to share it 
with everyone they meet.  Yes, they *are* evangelists.  It discounts,
however, the much greater number of people who participated in a 
workshop, gained a great deal personally, and have gone about their
lives influencing people in a subtler way, by having learned how to
support people in looking for their own answers, instead of trying
to find the magic outside.  

Moira Mallison
tektronix!moiram