Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ulysses!ucbvax!info-ibmpc From: Info-IBMPC@USC-ISIB.ARPA (Info-IBMPC Digest) Newsgroups: mod.computers.ibm-pc Subject: Info-IBMPC Digest V5 #2 Message-ID: <8601071222.AA00176@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> Date: Tue, 7-Jan-86 00:30:26 EST Article-I.D.: ucbvax.8601071222.AA00176 Posted: Tue Jan 7 00:30:26 1986 Date-Received: Thu, 9-Jan-86 00:06:27 EST Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: INFO-IBMPC@USC-ISIB.ARPA Organization: The ARPA Internet Lines: 469 Approved: info-ibmpc@usc-isib.arpa Info-IBMPC Digest Monday, 6 January 1985 Volume 5 : Issue 2 Today's Editor: Eliot Moore Today's Topics: Undigestification Administravia - Index Files for INFO-IBMPC Browse, X.PC MASM update policy Info re: Microosft OEM MASM Upgrades Definicon DSI-32 Digest Titan Technologies' Accelerator-PC HP ThinkJet Getting Rid of TurboLighting Diablo 630 FAT Experts Shipdisk Bare Boards and Real Cheap Clones ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 4 Jan 86 12:38:09 PST From: prandt!reynolds@AMES-NAS.ARPA (Don Reynolds) To: amelia!kvancamp@ARDC.ARPA Subject: Undigestification Cc: amelia!info-ibmpc@usc-isib.ARPA, reynolds@AMES-NAS.ARPA To reply to Kenneth Van Camp and to Billy: As a neophyte UNIX user, I've found the "pg" utility on System V and the "more" utility on 4.2 bsd will search for a string (like the --------) that separates the messages. I find I cannot understand things at 9600 baud. I do use Kermit, and the Frog scrolls backwards with Heathkit H-19 emulation under MS-DOS. It's a bit confusing sometimes keeping PgDn, End, and Return straight. I have not needed undigestification. I use the SAVSCR program before I read a Digest Issue. It is easy to excerpt pertinent messages from the screen to the PC, shear off the last space to get below 80 character lines to avoid a double-space appearance on the PC, then edit this small file on the PC. If I always responded to the list, and I had disk space available (usually NOT the case), I would use PC-Write, my favorite editor, to read the message in two or more pieces, if needed. PC-Write only keeps less than 64 kBytes in RAM. With direct screen writes, the human factors of paging are better than reading a book. Putting pieces of a file into separate files is easy with PC-Write, so each response can be written after each message, then copied to indi-vidual files for transfer to UNIX for mailing. But I will be watching for info on BROWSE -- sounds good. A few comments on using Info-IBMPC for reference: 1) I find this use at least as valuable as that of a "throw-away" news- paper. A cohort Macintosh list reader archives that list also. 2) I would like to request that readers be informed (under Adminstrivia) whenever the INFOPC CUMULATIVE INDEX is updated. 3) Since I have much more storage available on UNIX than on this PC-XT, I keep old issues on-line in subdirectories, by month. The UNIX utility "grep" has helped here, with the search space restricted to only a few files. Perhaps TOPS-20 has a context-search utility that could serve this purpose. Best, Don ------------------------------ Date: 5 Jan 1986 15:23:05 PST Subject: Index Files for INFO-IBMPC From: Billy To: info-ibmpc@USC-ISIB.ARPA We have lost our net connection to IBM. This means no more product announcements, price lists, or kwic index of our digests. It also means INFO-IBMPC is no longer carried on IBM's world wide net VNET. Yes the folks at Boca have been listening for the last three years or so. Not that they respond but they were listening. It is now the end of the year ant time to prepare our index to info-ibmpc and we have lost all those free cycles on those huge mainframes that used to compile our index. Here is the format of the file we have been calling kwic-index: CUMULATIVE INDEX FROM INFOPC VOLUME 3, ISSUE 1 THROUGH INFOPC VOLUME 4, ISSUE 39 APRIL 4, 1985 A/D V3 N47 Odd Bug with A/D on PC - Help! V3 N113 A/D boards for the PC ACCELERATOR V4 N23 PC Accelerator Boards Query ACCESS V3 N19 Accessing External STRUC in 8086 MS-DOS Assembler V3 N33 Accessing PC-BLUE Volumes from TOPS-20 V3 N47 DOS 2.1 Floppy Access Timing (Re: DOS 2.1 Patch) V3 N63 DOS 1.0 Random-Disk-Access Function Calls ACCOUNTING V3 N36 Accounting Package Query V3 N38 Accounting Package V3 N116 Accountant's Time Billing Program Query It isn't exactly a kwic index, but this was prepared under some program similar to a kwic program that runs on a 370. Does anyone out there have a 370 and archived digests (I will send those if needed) who would like to volunteer to make us an index of articles through 1985? I can't find such a program on the PDP-10 and don't have the heart to write an EEL program to do it on my PC. ------- ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jan 1986 05:05-EST Subject: Browse, X.PC From: ABN.ISCAMS@USC-ISID.ARPA NetLandians, There was a recent query (Issue #1) about better instructions for Browse. Can't help there, but I can recommend LIST60 .. full source code available at at USC-ISIB. Offers paging, file top, file bottom, handles text wider than screen, search for selected strings, etc. Very fast and versitile, PLUS the source code (yeay!). Re the kind soul offering X-PC documentation since it was so big it couldn't very well be EMailed anywhere .. if you're on the ARPAnet, the wizards at DEC-MARLBORO have kindly stashed the full documentation (X-PC.DQC) in the disk CPM:. Very nice document indeed, but still don't know of any code anywhere implementing it. Regards, David Kirschbaum Toad Hall ABN.ISCAMS@USC-ISID.ARPA ------------------------------ From: Gordon Letwin Subject: MASM update policy Date: 3 Jan 86 17:47:37 GMT First, a meta-comment on USENET and flamers: Step 1: Someone submits an article to USENET. Stipulate, from an omniscient perspective, that the article is factual and accurate. Step 2: The readers of the articles fall into three general categories: a) those who know the subject. They see that the article is correct and don't say anything. b) those who don't know the subject, and know that they don't. They figure that they have nothing to offer and don't say anything. c) people who are not only ignorant, but they don't realize their own ignorance. These folks flame. The flames are inaccurate and/or illogical. Step 3: The original submittor has two options, he can ignore the flames, or he can reply. Replying is a problem, though, because the flames that he's trying to rebut combine a lack of grasp of the material with an inability to argue logically. Given this experience, it makes the most sense for the originator to never originate in the first place. This algorithm is wide spread, and is at the root of the occasionally-aired complaint, "why doesn't Microsoft say something about this issue?" Now, given that I am too naive to stop beating a dead horse, I'll make my last pass at it: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I discussed the issue of buying an item from an OEM, and the responsibilty to the end buyer on the part of companies that supplied parts to that OEM. I claimed that although GM built the climate control system in my car, I bought the car from AUDI and GM has no responsibility towards me. It is up to AUDI to support me and propigate any upgrades that GM invents and makes available to AUDI. > This is a specious analogy, at best. You are comparing apples and oranges. > If you want to use a more accurate analogy, let's talk about the tires that > came on your Audi. OK, you find a tire that's bad due to a design defect; > your Audi dealer won't take the responsibility for it. If you have a really > good dealer, he may "take care of you", but in the majority of cases, he'll > send you to the tire manufacturer for an adjustment. WRONG WRONG WRONG. I guess that Kim hasn't ever bought a car, or maybe he's found a car company that has poor policies. I've bought three new cars from three different companies, and in eac case the CAR MANUFACTURER (via his dealer) IS SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE TIRE WARRENTY. The manufacturer expresses the warrantee, I don't have the foggiest what the tire maker's warrantee policy is; I just know what AUDI's warrantee is. AUDI sold me the tire, and AUDI warrents it. Only if I go out and buy a tire from Goodyear or some third party does Goodyear's warrantee become an issue. This isn't because he's a "good dealer" and being a pal, its spelled out in black and white in my warrantee documentation. > Or let's say that fancy AM-FM-Cassette player in your Audi breaks. Audi won't > fix it for you. They may pull it out of the car, but then it goes over to the > people who designed and manufactured it. This same procedure applies to most > major assemblies in the auto-parts industry, be it domestic or foreign. (Major > assemblies means things like alternators, carburetors, fuel-injection units, > starters, radios, tires, etc.) Again, Kim speaks from ignorance. In fact, my AM-FM- Cassette player in my AUDI did break - it broke about 2 weeks ago. Audi is responsible for fixing it, and they did just that. They took it out of the dash and swapped it for another. I was even offered a loaner car for the 30 minutes that it took. I'm aware that a typical Japanese radio warrantee is for 1 year - but I have a three year warrantee, because my AUDI is warrented, in toto, for three years. My warrantee is, of course, with AUDI and not with the Japanese company. Perhaps Kim is saying that the Audi dealer doesn't employ an EE to fix it, but will in turn send it back to Japan, where it was made. This may be true, but this is just a detail. (Actually, they will send it to an AUDI regional center which employs or contacts out to said EE.) Its AUDI's responsibiltiy to fix it, and they did, by swapping it. They could have fullfilled their responsibility by employing a EE, or by black magic, for all I care. They sold me the radio, and they are responsible under the warrantee they offered. After they fixed my radio, they can play with their defective stock in any way they choose. > It should also be noted that if the climate control in your Audi has design > defects in it, and Audi has to replace them in all their cars, Audi will most > certainly seek legal recourse against GM for the cost, etc. of such replace- > ment ... they pay even seek punitive damages. But all this would be in the > contracts between Audi and GM, and invisible to the end-user, just as any > agreement between Microsoft and Fujitsu is "invisible" to a user. A ray of light - this is exactly my point. You betcha that Fujitsu has a support and update agreement with Microsoft - and you betcha that we live up to this agreement in every way. If Fujitsu doesn't listen to your complaints, or doesn't offer you the update, then thats their failing. We listen to them and update them, pronto. > It's rather strange then, that Fujitsu doesn't have the source-code for > "their" assembler. They *cannot* fix my problem, even if they wanted to. No, this isn't strange at all. They can fix your problem if they want to, and they do it in the way provided under their contract with Microsoft. That contract allows them to report bugs and requires us to fix them. ------------------------------ From: Sandra Jacobson Subject: Info re: Microosft OEM MASM Upgrades Date: 3 Jan 86 18:05:53 GMT To: info-ibmpc@usc-isib.ARPA Users of a Microsoft OEM'ed Macro Assembler/MASM (with (C) Microsoft on it) can now to update to the latest version of the Microsoft Macro Assembler v 4.00. For details, contact Microsoft at (800) 426-9400. In Washington State and Alaska call (206)828-8088. In Canada call (800) 387-6616. System Requirements: MS-DOS 2.0 or later and Double Sided/Double Density 5-/14 diskette format This applies to copies of MASM that were purchased from OEMs only. Copies of MASM that were purchased from Microsoft are supported and updated under the existing agreements. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 86 21:57:17 PST From: Info-IBMPC Subject: Definicon DSI-32 Digest Anyone interested in participating in a digest/forum for the Definicon DSI-32 is requested to contact Mike Blackwell ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 6 January 1986 18:42:18 EST From: Joe.Newcomer@a.sei.cmu.edu To: info-ibmpc@usc-isib.arpa Subject: Titan Technologies' Accelerator-PC We recently tried out the Titan Technologies' "Accelerator-PC" board in our PC and XT. This board promises "Performance improvements from 2.5 to 4x a PC". Norton utilities shows a factor of 1.8 improvement. Measured performance of two benchmarks, a largely compute bound one gave a factor of 1.5 and an I/O bound one gave a factor of 1.2. The board is 8086 based with onboard 16-bit memory path. It claims to be able to load ROM code (including the Basic interpreter) into RAM to get faster speed, but our attempt to do this following instructions on the /XT (which are different than the PC) resulted in an unbootable system with disk controller errors (this is not the same system that experienced FAT troubles referred to in another message). At the $500 special-price-until- December-31 it isn't much of a bargain. The company offered a 15-day free trial, which is why I tried it, but one has gone back and the other will tomorrow. Anyone who knows of good AT-class accelerator cards that are AT-compatible: we're in the market for two of them. ------------------------------ From: "Todd H. Ogasawara" Subject: HP ThinkJet Date: 4 Jan 86 08:06:46 GMT I just placed an order for an HP ThinkJet. The reason I bought it was to have a quiet printer to work with late at night. Most of my software has drivers for the ThinkJet. However, two questions came to mind tonight. [1] I did not see any direct support of the ThinkJet by the STSC APL*PLUS/PC. The User's Guide mentions only Epson support for printing APL characters. Does anyone know if APL*PLUS/PC supports the ThinkJet? I'd hate to make the long distance call to the east coast from Hawaii to get a yes or no answer. Alternatively,.... [2] The mini-review of the HP ThinkJet in the PC Magazine 1984 (not 85) printer review issue mentions that the ThinkJet has a full Epson emulation mode. Yet, the review of the ThinkJet in the Jan85 BYTE review says that the ThinkJet CANNOT emulate the Epson printers. Can someone please tell me which review is correct? I plan on keeping my aging but reliable Epson MX-80 and so will not suffer too much if APL*PLUS/PC cannot dump APL chars to the ThinkJet. However, if the ThinkJet can emulate the Epson, it will save me a bit of cable switching. Thanks in advance for any information you can share with me...todd Todd Ogasawara, Computer Sciences Corp. NOSC-Hawaii Laboratories UUCPmail: {akgua,allegra,decvax,ihnp4,ucbvax}!sdcsvax!noscvax!ogasawar MILNET: OGASAWAR@NOSC *Note. ThinkJet is probably a proprietary term registered by Hewlett-Packard Hope this satisfies the legal types out there :-) [The Think Jet uses the same cable as the Epson, but does not allow down loadable characters like the Epson. As a rule of thumb most HP products are compatible with nothing else. The Thinkjet is by HP standards compatible with the Epson in that some of Epson codes are recognised. The MODE LPT1:132 command from DOS works in that it sets the thinkjet into 132 column mode. The thinket has a bit mapped graphics mode but I don't know if it is compatible with the Epson. -wab] ------------------------------ Date: 04 Jan 86 15:46:00 EST From: DAVE THOMAS Subject: Getting Rid of TurboLighting Does anyone know how I can get rid of Turbo Lighting once it has grabbed my machine? I've tried restoring all the vectors and performing an exit, but the DOS seems to keeo 64 bytes for the environment? Thanks in advance for the help. Dave Thomas F95THOMP@Carleton.bitnet ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jan 86 12:54:56 PST (Monday) Subject: Diablo 630 From: Philip M. Burton I have a Diablo 630 with a serial interface, connected with a null modem-type cable, with a transfer rate of 9600 baud. The 630 has a limited buffer, 768 bytes, and when it fills up, or if I take the printer off-line, the hardware handshaking pauses output to the printer. I know that all works fine, because I never experience a printer overrun. However, if my Diablo is turned off, output goes to the printer anyway. (Faster, too, since handshaking never pauses the output.) This is frustrating, particularly in comparison with parallel interface printers, which cause an error message to appear if the printer is either offline or not turned on. One more point. I have an AT, which has a different serial port controller than a PC or XT. Any suggestions? Please reply to me directly with comments of the, "Tell me your pin configuration," or "I use XON-XOFF because .... " variety. I'm open to suggestions, I can rewire the null modem cable since I built it myself, and finally, I'll post to the net the real, true answer that solves my problems. Phil Burton Xerox Corp. 415 496 6514 ------------------------------ Date: Monday, 6 January 1986 18:36:38 EST From: Joe.Newcomer@a.sei.cmu.edu To: info-ibmpc@usc-isib.arpa Subject: FAT Experts No, I don't need to thin down...but one of our PCs is getting scrambled FAT entries. A few weeks ago this happened, and I thought I had possibly screwed up the computation for the patch to reduce cluster size, so I reformatted the disk, and being under some time pressure just left the original values (I checked...they were not my patched values) in place. We are running a 16MB disk. I just got a call today that there were FAT errors and chkdsk reveals about 5 crosslinked files (.EXE and .COM files which had previously been fine!). No strange or unusual programs run on this straight-PC that don't run at least as heavily on our XT or AT. Two sets of FAT damage within a month make me suspicious. DOS 3.1. References to grubby details beyond the tech ref manual level would help. Suggestions for detection or correction of damage welcome, but I'd rather go after the root cause. joe ------------------------------ Date: 6 Jan 86 11:24:57 PST (Monday) From: Colvin.PA@Xerox.ARPA Subject: Shipdisk Several people have made comments in the past few disgests about running shipdisk at the end of their day before shutting off the machine. This is not necessary on a daily basis! Shipdisk's original purpose was to park the heads before transporting ("shipping") the machine. When a machine is going to be left resting on a desk and is not going to be moved, it is not necessary to park the heads, because very little can happen to the hard disk while it is sitting there. Running shipdisk the before going home at night just increases your boot time in the morning. -- Craig Colvin (Colvin.pa@Xerox.ARPA) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jan 86 21:24 EST From: "David S. Bakin" Subject: Bare Boards and Real Cheap Clones My computer shopper magazine is always filled with ads for real cheap (<$1000) XT clones and lots of different bare boards (MPC, XTC, etc etc etc). I haven't seen them discussed in this digest -- I'd love to hear from people who have used either cheap clones (questions about compatibility and reliability are foremost) or built them from bare or stuffed motherboards. THANKS!!!! -- Dave Bakin (Bakin -at mit-multics (arpa)) ------------------------------ End of Info-IBMPC Digest ************************ -------