Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site unc.unc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!mhuxr!mhuxt!houxm!whuxl!whuxlm!akgua!mcnc!unc!oliver From: oliver@unc.UUCP (Bill Oliver) Newsgroups: net.books,net.sf-lovers,net.motss Subject: Re: Should book ads disclose sexual slant? Message-ID: <795@unc.unc.UUCP> Date: Mon, 6-Jan-86 23:20:50 EST Article-I.D.: unc.795 Posted: Mon Jan 6 23:20:50 1986 Date-Received: Wed, 8-Jan-86 06:16:02 EST References: <4729@hlexa.UUCP> <223@birtch.UUCP> <783@unc.unc.UUCP> <585@harvard.UUCP> Reply-To: oliver@unc.UUCP (Bill Oliver) Distribution: net Organization: CS Dept, U. of N. Carolina, Chapel Hill Lines: 121 Xref: watmath net.books:2724 net.sf-lovers:11798 net.motss:2407 Summary: Reply to Steve Dyer In article <585@harvard.UUCP> version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site unc.unc.UUCP version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site harvard.UUCP unc!mcnc!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!dyer dyer@harvard.UUCP (Steve Dyer) writes: >I was wondering what discussion Bill Oliver was participating in in his >most recent posting on Delaney's book, but I suspect that it's been >lost in the net, for everything he says seems pretty irrelevant to >the points at hand. To review some facts: > > o there is no "book review" here, only a book ad. > o for those who have read, or will take the trouble to > read SIMPLGOS, you will note that his treatment of > sexuality really has little to do with "gay"/"straight" > issues. > >-- >/Steve Dyer >dyer@harvard.harvard.edu >harvard!dyer I apologise if my comments regarding the questions about objecting to homosexual content in a book seemed a bit bizarre. In part, this was because my first reply was in fact a comment on Mr. Kiselev's statement that one should not have a preference in the way sex is depicted in literature, since "sex is sex." I suppose I am simply rather sensitized to the subject due to my line of work (for those of you who do not read net.med, I am a forensic pathologist. Forensic Pathology is that medical specialty which deals primarily in the evaluation of unnatural death, though we are also usually heavily involved in evaluating any process, natural or unnatural, which has a general public health impact.), but I was trying to make the point that sex is not just sex, and that one should not mildly accept nor feel obligated to appreciate a literary description of sexual activity on the ground that a nonjudgemental approach to the subject is necessarily the best approach. In the case of the paraphilias, it is a repeated pattern that practitioners mature within a given practice, beginning with the aquisition and appreciation of allusionary or allegoric material, move to more explicit accounts, and eventually to frankly pornographic material which is then used both for gratification alone and as templates for acting out. Maturation of paraphilic experience is thus a learning experience which may occur over a period of years, ending in fatality and/or exploitation. As to Mr. Dyer's criticism that what I had to say had little to do with homosexuality, I must admit culpability and repeat that I reacted more to Mr. Kiselev's reply than to the original question. I certainly do not wish to imply that homosexuality, per se, is a paraphilia. Quite the opposite; I have dealt with more than a few people who suffered considerable ill effects because of such a misapprehension. One young man, for instance, tried so hard to deny his homosexuality that he became engaged to be married. He suffered numerous psychosomatic diseases, including peptic ulcer disease and ulcerative colitis, both of which can be extrememly serious and rarely frankly life threatening, primarily because of his profound constant anxiety. Once he accepted his orientation, his health improved immeasurably. Still, I feel strongly that Mr. Friedman (the original poster) need not feel guilty in any way because he lacks an appreciation for homosexual literature. My second point was that if one has a pronounced preference for a given sexual orientation in literature, it is not "wrong" to express that preference in one's buying habits, nor is it "wrong" to be disappointed when those preferences are not met in a book that one expected to gratify that preference. The original poster had specifically asked if it was somehow wrong for him to be disappointed in finding a homosexual slant in a book he had bought with the expectation of finding descriptions of heterosexual sensuality. My ignorance that the reviews by the Quality Paperback Book Club are meant to be very brief was a misapprehension based on my experience with the only book club I belong to, the History Book Club. In it, most new additions to the lists are accompanied by a review of a few pages in length. While older books are described in just a short sentence, almost all books listed have been reviewed at length at some time. I still feel that a book club has a certain responsibilty to its members - I have seen volumes of Norman's Gor series described in the same uninformative terms of "sensuality" and would be distressed to find that I had spent money to obtain such a volume. As an aside for those of you interested in history, I have been extremely happy with the service and selection of the History Book Club. I suppose that since I am strongly opposed to literary censorship (Indeed, there is often no better way to attempt to understand the psychodynamics of, or subjective responses to the paraphilias than through literary description. Observe the description of erotic asphyxiation in William S. Burroughs' "Naked Lunch", or the hanging of Roland in "Justine" by de Sade.), I feel that the most appropriate way for society to deal with paraphilic literature is through diffuse societal disapproval rather than legislation. In another area of public health, such a society wide approbation is developing, for instance, against cigarette smoking, and I feel that such an attitude will work effectively to decrease fatality as today's young mature. Similar attitudes are developing regarding drinking and driving. Unfortunately, I see the opposite occuring in the area of sexuality, with greater societal acceptance of a number of sexual activities which may lead to greater exploitation of the young and an increase in sexually related fatalities. Of the lust murders I have seen in the past few months, the great majority have been perpetrated by people under the age of 18. I have great respect for Mr. Delaney, both for his writing and for his success as a homosexual parent, though I prefer his earlier work (Triton, Driftglass, Dhalgren, The Ballad of Beta Two) to his later efforts. While I have never had the pleasure of meeting him, my cousin, a poet in New York and student of Allen Ginsburg (her name is Alice Notley - BUY HER BOOKS!!!) has had such an opportunity and describes him in glowing terms. Upon reflection, I am sure that Mr. Kiselev, when he made such global statments that "sex is sex" and "romance is romance", had the vision of any number of loving couples in mind. When I read such a statement, however, I instead thought of fugue states and edged weapons. I apologise for projecting my concerns on the net. Bill Oliver The opinions expressed are my own and should not be construed to represent those of any other official, nor of any Office or Agency of the State of North Carolina.