Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site 3comvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!petrus!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!sun!idi!oliveb!3comvax!mykes From: mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) Newsgroups: net.micro.amiga Subject: Re: The real debate begins: Atari ST vs Commodore 128 Message-ID: <337@3comvax.UUCP> Date: Sat, 11-Jan-86 15:24:27 EST Article-I.D.: 3comvax.337 Posted: Sat Jan 11 15:24:27 1986 Date-Received: Wed, 15-Jan-86 07:59:59 EST References: <330@3comvax.UUCP> <425@faron.UUCP> Reply-To: mykes@3comvax.UUCP (Mike Schwartz) Distribution: net Organization: 3Com Corp; Mountain View, CA Lines: 78 Since it seems that my initial posting was misinterpreted, I will make my points clearer: look at this price range: Commodore 64 $100 Commodore 128 $400 Atari 520 ST $400 Apple II $800 Amiga (game machine) $1300 MacIntosh $1700 IBM PC XT $1700 Amiga PC $2200 (512K Ram, 2 Floppies) AT&T 6300 XT $2400 IBM PC AT $3500 Amiga Super PC $4000 (80 MB hard disk, 8.5 MB RAM) When Joe Lunchbucket (the average consumer) goes to K-Mart, the C128 and the Atari ST will be sitting there side by side. On the shelves there will be THOUSANDS of C128 programs, and a hundred (maybe) for the ST. The C128 probably outsold the Amiga and the ST 4-to-1 this past Christmas. I LIKE THE ST, but I doubt if the support you get from K-Mart is nearly as good as it would be from a place like Businessland or Computerland or Computer Attic. The C128 requires a LOT LESS HANDHOLDING than any of the other computers around. And PROFESSIONAL salespeople (including the good ones and the bad ones) are expensive to maintain - it is better to spend your time selling more expensive machines for larger comissions. The fact that so many people keep buying Apple II's, IBM PC's, C64's and C128s seems to indicate to me that the average person either cannot tell the difference between things that are state of the art (68000 vs. 6502) or they just don't care (what can the computer do for me now). Another factor might be a HUGE INVESTMENT in software already purchased for the C64 or C128 (they can both run the C64 software) and Apple II and IBM PC. A year ago Christmas, I could have bought an Apple IIc (128 K Ram, built-in floppy) and a monochrome monitor for $2000. This Christmas, I bought an Amiga (512K Ram, built-in floppy, external floppy, COLOR monitor, mouse) for the same price. This to me is really exciting. I think that people willing to spend the money for the Apple II or MacIntosh will consider spending the same money for an Amiga. The three machines will be standing next to eachother in the same COMPUTER store, and the Amiga will TALK and PLAY HIGH QUALITY STEREO MUSIC, and will have COLOR PAINT PROGRAMS, and will demonstrate its MULTI-TASKING. The Atari ST WILL NOT BE THERE or it might offer similar alternatives. I bought my Amiga for what I feel are good reasons. What a machine comes with standard (out of the box) becomes a standard for which all future programs for it can be designed. The Amiga sound capabilities, stock, are good enough to make real sounds and instruments, and ALL AMIGAS can do it. I have never liked talking computers, because they have always been really repetitive, but ALL AMIGAS TALK AND the only things it can't say are limited by the imagination of the people who have them. I like the idea of using the same development environment as everyone else for the machine, and 'C' is the best choice for me. I think the Amiga was made to program on, just like the IBM PC is physically, and the Amiga's software is a real dream to interface to. I like the fact that a lot of source code is posted to net.micro.amiga, and that I can learn from it as well as compile it and use it. I also think that people will ALWAYS EXPAND A COMPUTER AS FAR AS THEY CAN, which means that the Amiga will be an 8.5MB machine for lots of us. I talked to Bruce Artwick on the phone, and e said that his work on Flight Simulator for the Amiga is coming along a little slower than he would like, but he had to do some more work on the Mac version. He did indicate that a ST version would be coming out, too. I would also like to point out that I call any computer that you can buy at TOYS-R-US a toy. I buy stuff at K-Mart and Toys-R-Us (I'm not proud), and they are fine places. The thing that I like about the ST is that AT&T will be selling them (or so it seems) as low-cost UNIX workstations. I will want to take advantage of all the UNIX-to-ST stuff that will be done, so I have little doubt I will even buy one - at TOYS-R-US. Another big plus is that ST repair service will be the best - just bring it back and the store can give you a new one. /mykes P.S. Count the flames in this one, (0).