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From: orb@whuts.UUCP (SEVENER)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: The use of violence.
Message-ID: <506@whuts.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 24-Jan-86 10:41:43 EST
Article-I.D.: whuts.506
Posted: Fri Jan 24 10:41:43 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 25-Jan-86 22:34:11 EST
References: <566@decwrl.DEC.COM> <224@aero.ARPA> <484@kontron.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 41

Sam Cramer writes in response to comments on nonviolence :
> 
> > Non-violence often leads to the death or injury of those practicing it. People
> > like Gandhi and King recognized and accepted this.
> > 
> > Thus non-violence I believe is an approach that requires sacrifices by those
> > that practice it for the future benefit of all people.
> > 
> 
> No argument here -- but remember that non-violence in some situations may
> require sacrifices from people that don't accept your ideas on this.  Like
> the six million who died in concentration camps.
> 
 
And what about the casualties of *violence*? It is quite possible that 4
billion people, i.e. the whole human race, could be destroyed by our
acceptance of the use of violence as a means of attaining national ends.
 
Moreover as against the six million who died in concentration camps
(victims of a regime which *glorified* violence to the hilt) there
have been many more millions who have died in wars since World War II.
 
Please explain to me the great success of the PLO's use of violence to
try to gain a Palestinian homeland.  They have been engaged in random
acts of violence since 1948 - where is their great liberation?
 
Please explain to me the great success of the Irish Republican Army
in their campaign of terrorist bombings and violence.  I doubt their
attempt to bomb Maggie Thatcher is what led to the current important
imrprovements in Ireland but rather the election of members of the
parliament who support steps towards the independence of Northern Ireland.
 
Is the African National Congress better off by promoting violence?
I fail to see how this has helped their struggle significantly.
Instead it makes it ever more impossible to negotiate with the whites who
feel they are fighting for their lives while providing an excuse for
conservatives in the rest of the world to back the apartheid regime. 

We may very well all be fried by our unfortunate committment to violence
as any sort of "solution" to political and social problems.
         tim sevener   whuxn!orb