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From: teitz@aecom.UUCP (Eliyahu Teitz)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Re: ten tal u'matar
Message-ID: <2196@aecom.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 15-Jan-86 16:05:12 EST
Article-I.D.: aecom.2196
Posted: Wed Jan 15 16:05:12 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 17-Jan-86 20:55:24 EST
References: <970@lsuc.UUCP> <1025@lsuc.UUCP>
Organization: Albert Einstein Coll. of Med., NY
Lines: 46

> 
> >What do we do in the meantime?  How can we pray for rain if we don't need it?
> >How can we pray for rain if we not only do not need it, but also if rain would
> >be absolutely harmful to the local agriculture?  Well, you will notice that the
> >times of the year when Jews in Exile pray for rain is a proper subset of the
> >times of the year when Jews in Israel pray for rain.  Whenever we are praying
> >for rain in Toronto, they are also praying for rain in Israel.  So, if you cannot
> >sincerely ask for rain where you live, because it might cause harm to the crops,
> >then think about Israel, not your own area, when you say `vten tal umatar'.
> >


	I just heard an interesting point relevant to this. A friend of mine
 was studying in a yeshiva in Israel and asked his rabbi there about the
 saying of v'ten tal u'matar. The rabbi told him that what he says ( when he
 switches to v'ten tal u'matar ) depends on his version of the blessing in
 which it is said. There are two versions of this blessing ( amongst 
 Ashkenazik Jews [ S'fardic Jews have a totally different blessing during the 
 rain season, not just a one line difference ]). In oe version of this blessing
 we say v'sabenu mituvecha - and satisfy us from Your ( G-D ) good. In the 
 other version we say v'sabenu mituvah - satisfy us from her good. The question
 is whose good are we asking for in the second version. I had always ( and still
 do ) understood it to mean the good of the year for which we are praying ( the
 blessing starts out requesting of G-D to bless this year ). If we want the 
 good of this year then we should ask for rain during the rain season in the
 country or region where we find ourselves. However, the rabbi had a different
 way of explaining the blessing. He said the good being refered to is of the
 land of Israel. He therefore said that w should start saying v'ten tal u'matar
 when it is said in Israel, no matter where we are. I still like my explaination
 better, because it fits the blessing better. After all why throw in the land
 of Israel from out of nowhere into the middle of the blessing.

	As an aside, there is a discussion in halacha ( as usual I don't have
 the exact location at hand ) of a person visiting Israel during the time
 that tal u'matar is said in Israel, but before it is said in the diaspora.
 Some rabbis are of the opinion that the person should say tal u'matar. Others
 though, say that he shouldn't. It might depend on how long the person plans
 to stay in Israel. If he is on a short visit, and his sustenance comes 
 primarily for his home town, then he should ask for the rains there. However,
 if he wil get his sustenance primarily from Israel then maybe he should 
 recite tal u'matar while in Israel. Of course, one could say that as long as
 he is in Israel and eating the fruit of the land, he should say tal u'matar
 and that it dos not depend on primary sustainance.


			Eliyahu Teitz.