Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: $Revision: 1.6.2.16 $; site ISM780B.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!bellcore!decvax!cca!ISM780B!geoff From: geoff@ISM780B.UUCP Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: Re: Re: responsibility, sensitivity, Message-ID: <28100015@ISM780B.UUCP> Date: Thu, 16-Jan-86 12:35:00 EST Article-I.D.: ISM780B.28100015 Posted: Thu Jan 16 12:35:00 1986 Date-Received: Sat, 18-Jan-86 07:48:38 EST References: <2398@pyuxd.UUCP> Lines: 54 Nf-ID: #R:pyuxd:-239800:ISM780B:28100015:000:3376 Nf-From: ISM780B!geoff Jan 16 12:35:00 1986 >>>> The claim that anyone who DOESN'T take charge of the feelings/emotions >>>> (as these people have) is "responsible" for their predicament is a total >>>> fabrication. [ROSEN] >>> If it's "their predicament," then how can they not be responsible for it? >>> [LEE HAGERTY] >So, if you were taught "lies", you are "responsible" for having learned them, >for having a teacher (e.g., parents) who taught them to you. It was your >"choice". You could have chosen not to accept the fundamental things you >were taught that formed your weltanschauung. Pray tell, how? > [...] Hey, if someone learned to act a certain way >because that's the way his/her parents acted around the house, and because that >was all he/she saw in the world, then who was AT FAULT? Who was the cause, >and thus the person "responsible"? The parents? But what caused them to >behave the way they did? And what... "Hey, I can't find anybody responsible >for what happened! GOD DAMMIT, SOMEONE MUST BE RESPONSIBLE!!!!!! IT HAS TO >BE!!!!! SO WHO THE HELL IS IT???? ... Well, I guess it must be me. I'm >responsible for my parents teaching me what they taught me, and their parents, >and so on..." Do I make this line of thinking sound ridiculous enough? God >knows, I'm trying. :-) You're succeeding. And missing something important. It seems to me that a lot of people attach _guilt_, _fault_ and _blame_ to _responsibility_. The point of accepting responsibility for one's own actions and feeling is so that one can *change* them. Pointing fingers doesn't do anything useful. I can't change anything that isn't mine to change. By accepting responsibility (NOT BLAME, GUILT, or, for that matter, CREDIT), you empower yourself to make any changes you think appropriate. I take responsibility for being who I am, I don't take *credit* for all of the good things -- many of which were handed to me on silver dinnerware, nor do I beat myself up about the negative things. Taking responsibility has nothing to do with whether or not one had a choice in the matter. (whatever that means -- I'm not about to get into a "free-will" discussion.) Suppose some dog digs through your trash one night and leaves garbage all over the sidewalk, are you going to ignore the mess because it isn't your "fault"? Or are you going to take responsibility for the mess and clean it up? If you do, is everyone who sees you doing it going to think that since you've taken responsibility for cleaning up the mess, that you were the one that made the mess? Even if they did think so, would you really care enough to leave the mess lying there? I'm sure you're not going to try to find the dog and make *him* clean it up, and I think it would be more trouble than it's worth to find the dog's owner (he might not have one). I'm not sure I follow your argument about "responsibilitarianism", so I won't comment. I'm not flaming anybody, since I'm not really sure what everybody is trying to say. I only know what *I'm* trying to say, which is: Responsibility is a value-free concept. Seen from that perpective most of these arguments take on an entirely different meaning. Geoffrey Kimbrough -- Director of Dangerous Activities -- INTERACTIVE Systems Corporation, Santa Monica California. {decvax!vortex || ihnp4!allegra!ima}!ism780!geoff I've lost a buttonhole!