Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 SMI; site sun.uucp Path: utzoo!decvax!decwrl!sun!garth From: garth@sun.uucp (Garth R. Doverspike) Newsgroups: net.women Subject: Re: Beach harassment: some questions Message-ID: <3173@sun.uucp> Date: Fri, 17-Jan-86 19:57:47 EST Article-I.D.: sun.3173 Posted: Fri Jan 17 19:57:47 1986 Date-Received: Sat, 18-Jan-86 03:44:09 EST References: <8342@ucla-cs.ARPA> <2581@sdcrdcf.UUCP> <6269@tektronix.UUCP> <2585@sdcrdcf.UUCP> Distribution: na Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 88 The first part of this article is in reply to Alans' article > Alan Me The second part is some general thoughts on this subject. > There *are* plenty of women who do the type of thing Eric > decribed in order to tease men. (men have their own methods). > This behavior is reprehensible and should be condemned when > recognized. There was nothing in what Eric described to indicate that this woman was a tease. I agree that some women do tease, as do some men. I also agree that it is reprehensible behavior for both sexes. What bothers me is that many men assume that a woman alone is a signal that they are looking to be picked up. The typical responce of such men when they are rejected is to call the women (mentally or verbally) a tease or a dyke. The truth is a women may just want to be left alone. > She *was* acting a little strangely for a woman who wanted to > be left alone. Going to a public beach; getting into a swimsuit > and unhooking the top; going alone. This pretty well describes > the way a woman might look for a man. Public beaches are just that, public. Just because someone goes to a public beach doesn't mean that they was to socialize. Maybe she lives a block from this beach, should she have to go miles out of her way to go to a more secluded beach just so she doesn't have to worry about some jerk bothering her? She also may feel safer with people about, less likey to get into any real trouble that way. Having many close female fiends I can tell you that safety is something that is on some womens minds most of the time. It happens that it is safer to be "alone" on a public beach than a private beach if you are a woman (unless the private beach is REALLY private). > If she really wanted to not be bothered, in spite of her actions, > she would probably have told the guys "Please! I'm trying to > read!" right off the bat. Instead she half ignored them, wating > to see what method they would think of to try to interest her. > Just like a tease might so. The unfortunate truth is that many woman will not tell a man to get lost directly. They are to afraid of hurting the mans feelings, this is something that our society has ingrained deeply into women. Being assertive at all is something that takes a while for most women to learn, and when they do there is always some jerk that will then start calling them a bitch. See the problem? If they don't say "Get lost" up front the men think they are playing hard to get (after all how could they not want me), if they do then they are a bitch. No win. > While she might have wanted to read, usually a person tanning > by himself will read a book or mag just to past the time. Her > actions were not inconsistant with that. I agree, however after getting short replys and seeing that she wasn't going to put the book down, why continue trying to talk? Both the first and third men where guilty of harassment, while the second was guilty of bad timing (or poor judgement if he had seen the first man doing his macho act). This subject has bothered me for a while (and women for longer than that :-). One of my female friends greatest complaint about public transit is that men will not stop harassing her. When she makes it clear that she is not interested the still continue to make problems of themselves. I have noticed this same thing happen in bars to groups of women who do not have men present. It seems to me that more men might have more luck making female friends if women didn't feel threatened by jerks like this every time they leave the house. What I would like to ask the women of the net is, what can a man do to help if he sees this sort of thing going on. I realise that most of the time the women can handle things themselves, but what should a guy to when things start getting abusive. If he walks up and says "Leave the woman alone", he looks like a macho type himself, and will probably get in a fight because the other man(?) will not back down. I don't object to fighting for things that have to be fought for, but there has to be a better way. I am glad that Eric brought this up, it shows that yet another man has thought about this. This type of harassment of women hurts both sexes. Garth R. Doverspike Sun Microsystems !{dual, ihnp4, ucbvax}!sun!dojo!garth