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From: shaprkg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Bob Shapiro)
Newsgroups: net.consumers
Subject: Credit card carbons
Message-ID: <2625@sdcrdcf.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 13-Feb-86 13:24:23 EST
Article-I.D.: sdcrdcf.2625
Posted: Thu Feb 13 13:24:23 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 15-Feb-86 02:00:40 EST
Reply-To: shaprkg@sdcrdcf.UUCP (Bob Shapiro)
Distribution: na
Organization: System Development Corporation R&D, Santa Monica
Lines: 62


   I own a business in which customers may use credit cards as a form of
payment.  The rules I must abide by are as follows:

   1. There is a floor limit for each credit card company. If the amount of
purchase is greater than that floor limit I must get an approval code from
the credit card company.

   2. I must check the card against the latest "bad card list" and make sure
that it is not "blacklisted". (By the way if I can get my hands on a card
like that and mail it back to the credit card company they will pay me an
honorarium). Obviously if I have had to call for an approval code this is not
necessary, and in fact we have found it is simpler to call even if it is
below the floor limit rather than waste the time looking up the bad card list.

   3. I must either verify that the signature on the card is the same as the
signature on the credit slip. If this is a phone order than I must have on
file in my office a "signature on file card" signed by the card owner which
authorizes me to sign for them.

   4. In addition, if I do not know the owner of the card, I ask for their
driver's license and check to make sure that they are the same person whose
name appears on the card. Many people do not sign their credit cards and
the real owner may be lying in the alley while the thief merely signs the
name on the card with his own writing and of course he can then demonstrate
repeatability of the signature.

   It has always been my understanding that if I fail to do all of the above
then the credit card company can come back to me and make me pay them back.
This has been a sufficient incentive that I have never been questioned by
any credit card company.

   Therefore I have great difficulty understanding the current paranoia
concerning credit card carbons.  Certainly it would be a nuisance to have
an unauthorized purchase removed from my card, but it should be possible. In
point of fact I have had unauthorized purchases removed from my card in the
past.  However, if I really have purchased the item, and the merchant can
prove that I did, then I may be in for a case of larceny if I refuse to pay
for the credit card purchase just because the owner did not follow all of
the above rules. So, one should be sure of their position when they have an
unauthorized purchase removed.  I suspect that many people either do not
check their monthly bills on an item by item basis or are merely intimidated
by the credit card companies, so they don't question unauthorized purchases.

   As for the case of the merchant putting an extra credit card slip
underneath, I would suspect it should be possible to show the difference
between carbon paper and ball point pen on the original.  I am sure that
a truly unscrupulous merchant can nail you by adding extra digits (most
people don't save their copy of the credit card form) but it should take only
a few complaints and the credit card companies fraud division will be all
over them.

   The only real danger that I see in this whole system is primarily to the
merchants and somewhat to the credit card companies. (If it can be shown
that the merchant took prudent steps to check the card then he is off the
hook) Of course the credit card companies have a major exposure in that the
owner of the card may never pay their bill, but that's what checking out
credit in the beginning before issuing the card is supposed to do, and the
exposure is inversely proportional to the effort in this area.


			Bob Shapiro