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From: ins_akaa@jhunix.UUCP (Ken Arromdee)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: The use of nonviolence.
Message-ID: <1568@jhunix.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 25-Jan-86 12:21:39 EST
Article-I.D.: jhunix.1568
Posted: Sat Jan 25 12:21:39 1986
Date-Received: Thu, 6-Feb-86 10:19:15 EST
References: <566@decwrl.DEC.COM> <224@aero.ARPA>
Reply-To: ins_akaa@jhunix.ARPA (Ken Arromdee)
Organization: TARDIS Repairs, Inc.
Lines: 67

In article <224@aero.ARPA> foy@aero.UUCP (Richard Foy) writes:
>My thoughts on non violence:
>I believe that underneath their social conditioning all peoples are pretty
>much alike. Thus I don't think that the Germans of Hitlers time or the
>Russians of Stanlins time are fundamentally any different than the English
>or British.
>Non-violence acts slowly. Martin Luther King was assinated years ago.  His
>actions are still bearing fruit, but have not fully eliminated the conditions
>he was concerned about. A similiar statement may be made about Gandhi. 
>Non-violence often leads to the death or injury of those practicing it. People
>like Gandhi and King recognized and accepted this.
>Thus non-violence I believe is an approach that requires sacrifices by those
>that practice it for the future benefit of all people.
>Is it not possible that, if there had been a German in the 30's
>with the abilities and dedication of a Gandhi or King, Hitler would  have 
>been stopped by his own people. 

The trouble is that non-violence wouldn't be enough--the Nazis would just go
along killing non-Aryans.  If you meant that the German in question would
not just stand by, but actively help the Nazis' victims, then it would require
violence to do so.  The Nazis had no qualms about killing innocent people,
whether or not those innocent people used violence.  Anyone who advocated
resistance, non-violent or otherwise, would be dead, without a chance to
gain any supporters as did Gandhi or King, who after all lived in a society
whose rulers were much more civilized than the Nazis.  And if non-violence
acts as slowly as you claim, the Nazis could have conquered Europe and killed
many millions more people before it worked, if at all.  Only military force
could save these people.

Not only does non-violence lead to the death or injury of those practicing it,
it can lead to the death of others who have little choice, if saving those
others requires violence.

>Is it not possible that, if FDR had been a proponent of non-violence, 
>with his charisma he could have found and implemented a non-violent
>approach to stopping Hitler, to eliminating the conflict with Japan in
>the 30's with non violence rather than weapons in the 40's.

Not possible.  These countries wanted world (or near-world) conquest.  They
were willing to fight wars to do so.  Their decision to do so was not
negotiable.  And giving up land to appease them (i.e., the Sudetenland)
only caused a shift of their attentions to the next pieces of land.

>I think that the more people that practice non-violence in their own lifes
>the more chance it has of becoming a world wide mode, and the fewer total
>lives will be lost. If one studies the marshall art  Akido one gets a 
>better understanding of how this works in practice.

If everyone practices non-violence, fine.  But some won't (i.e. Nazis), and
in a world where some do and some don't, the "dont's" have the upper hand.
Allowing the dont's to go on killing is not the answer, and neither is lying
in their way--they'll just kill you too.
>Richard Foy, Redondo Beach, CA
>The opinions I have expressed are the result of many years in the school of
>hard knocks. Thus they are my own.
> 


-- 
"We are going to give a little something, a few little years more, to
socialism, because socialism is defunct.  It dies all by iself.  The bad thing
is that socialism, being a victim of its... Did I say socialism?" -Fidel Castro

Kenneth Arromdee
BITNET: G46I4701 at JHUVM and INS_AKAA at JHUVMS
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