Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/17/84; site ittvax.ATC.ITT.UUCP Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!bellcore!decvax!ittatc!ittvax!aouriri From: aouriri@ittvax.ATC.ITT.UUCP (Chedley Aouriri) Newsgroups: net.politics Subject: Middle East settlment. Message-ID: <584@ittvax.ATC.ITT.UUCP> Date: Fri, 31-Jan-86 19:19:34 EST Article-I.D.: ittvax.584 Posted: Fri Jan 31 19:19:34 1986 Date-Received: Thu, 6-Feb-86 21:58:29 EST References: <132@mit-vax.UUCP> Organization: ITT-ATC, Shelton Ct. Lines: 136 Key-words: Palestine, Arabs, Egypt, Israel, UN resolutions Oded Feingold writes about arab occupied territories by Israel: > Which Palestinians should get it? Should Israel merely evacuate and > let anyone walk in? No, anyone will not walk in. Those territories should be handed over to a duly recognized palestinian authority. > What would happen to (Jewish) Israelis living in the lands you'd > like to see turned over to the Palestinians? [About 60% of the Israeli > population.] Note that the PNC declares all Jews arriving > post-beginning-of-zionist-invasion illegitimate residents. Since the > onset date of such "zionist invasion" is unspecified, could you supply > one? Negotiations between Israel and Palestinians will handle this problem. A possible solution: specify the date of the zionist invasion such that all civilian israelis could stay-if they wish to- and become citizens of the new secular palestinian state, where all religions are respected. Compare this with the actual situation in Israel whete only judaism is recognized (I mean , Israel is NOT A SECULAR STATE). > Such a reapportionment would presumably require negotiation with the > Israelis. But the three nos (no peace with Israel, no recognition of > Israel, no negotiation with Israel) of the 1968 Amman conference have > only been repudiated by Egypt. Who on the Palestinian side is prepared > to change that position? Nobody from the palestinian side will change that position, and repudiate the PNC (Palestinian National Covenant) without Israel's recognition of the "legitimity of the palestinians". Indeed, this is the QUI-PRO-CO of the american administration and the israelis. Israel, and the US government, claim that they will not talk -officially- to any palestinian or PLO representative, unless the PNC is repudiated. On the other side, the palestinians and the PLO cannot repudiate their PNC without getting in return something tangible, such as negotiations to establish a palestinian state. Note that there are ways around this. For example, all UN resolutions are accepted by the PLO, including resolutions 338 and 242 which unequivocally recognize and mention Israel as a sovereign state. I must say that Israel -and the US- have an easy game here, if they wish to stall on the palestinian problem, which they have been doing so far. Whenever the palestinian representativity question is raised, they fall back to the PNC and require its repudiation, knowing very well that no palestinian in his right mind can dare doing that without anything back in return. After all, the PNC is one of their last cards. > > It may also force me to modify my perception of Mr. Aouriri as a > person who hates Jews and is uninterested in justice for them. I don't > know whether anyone cares. Finally, Oded is ready to change his pre-judiced perception. I hope he is convinced that I do not hate jews per se, and I am not anti- semitic, but I do oppose zionists. (Whether he likes it or not, there is a difference between jews and zionists). > ------------------------------ > The territory occupied and/or annexed after the 1956 war was zero. > Do yo deny that? If not, why did you mention it? No. I mention it because the INTENTION of ISRAEL in 1956 was to occupy and/or annex more arab lands. Otherwise, why did Israel join France and England in their military expedition against Egypt in 1956 ? Since 1956, the die was cast for Israel in arab minds. Israel, proving its association with the colonial powers, has been since identified with "colonialists", and later "imperialists", in the Arab world. In my opinion, this is the main reason why it is so hard -if not impossible- for many arabs to accept Israel as a neighbour. ( Reminder: In 1956 Egypt nationalized the Suez canal, which was owned by a consortium of french and english companies. To punish Egypt for that nationalization, and "to give a lesson" to Nasser who was the egyptian leader in 1956, France and England decided to mount a military expedition against Egypt. Israel saw in it a golden opportunity to expand and annex more arab land. It eagerly and keenly joined the british and the french in their military operation against Egypt. By the way, that military operation has been a total flop for France, England an Israel due mainly to the american and soviet disapprobation ) > The territory occupied after the 1967 war includes portions of Egypt > and Syria. Do you claim those for a Palestinian national homeland? No. > However, since then Israel has apparently annexed portions of the > Golan Heights. Just as for 1967, do you claim that in the name of the > Palestinians? NO. > > Your first sentence makes implicit claims on Jerusalem, since by the > terms of the November 1947 (NOT 1948) UN partition resolution it was to > be an international city. Care to suggest a new "owner" of that city? Jerusalem is certainly not part of Israel as it is specified in the UN partition resolution. It was part of Jordan. Therefore, Jordan or a palestinian state should be the "owner" of that city which is holy for Muslims, Christians and Jews. > One other note - no UN resolution "created" Israel: The Israelis > created Israel. Wrong! Historically, three main elements created Israel: 1- The Balfour declaration (in 1918, I think!). 2- The UN resolution in 1947-48. 3- The european jewish zionists, after the nazi holocaust in Europe during WW2. Some might even add that Hitler helped them (Because without Hitler's crazy dream and holocaust, the european zionists and jews would never leave Europe for the Middle East!). > The Palestinians had no chance to create anything There you go again!!!!!!!!!!! > territory not occupied by Israel was occupied by Egypt (Gaza Strip) and > Jordan (West Bank) in 1948. In fact, those countries combined occupied > 70% of the territory allotted to Arabs in the UN resolution. Right! But then, the palestinians were living in their homeland, not in shanty-towns or in camps under tents. They were not kicked around from one country to another, and they were certainly not under military occupation. CHEDLEY AOURIRI, ITT-ATC, Shelton, CT. ....ittatc!ittvax!aouriri