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From: tonyw@ubvax.UUCP (Tony Wuersch)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Adverse effects of the Abolition of
Message-ID: <422@ubvax.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 31-Jan-86 15:46:08 EST
Article-I.D.: ubvax.422
Posted: Fri Jan 31 15:46:08 1986
Date-Received: Thu, 6-Feb-86 21:59:36 EST
References: <1245@pucc-i> <7800911@inmet.UUCP> <11619@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>
Reply-To: tonyw@ubvax.UUCP (Tony Wuersch)
Organization: Ungermann-Bass, Inc., Santa Clara, Ca.
Lines: 49

In article <11619@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> weemba@brahms.UUCP (Matthew P. Wiener) writes:
>This last point was immensely aided by point 4), which includes not only the
>military incompetence Hitler now developed, but also his brutal treatment of
>the indigenous populations.  The Germans were quite often greeted as welcome
>liberators throughout the first month of Barbarossa, and could easily have
>turned whole nations (Ukraine, Byelorussia, etc.) to their side.  Indeed,
>more than any of the other points, I feel this is where Hitler missed his
>greatest chances for conquering the Soviet Union.
>
>---Sorry for going on so long on this tangent, but I find Americans' ignorance
> (I don't mean > and >> above!!) on WWII and the Soviet Union horrifying.---
>
>ucbvax!brahms!weemba	Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720

Hitler would have lost anyhow.  I'm surprised that Matt's focus here is
on Soviet morale and Russian patriotism as why the USSR defeated Hitler.
What morale and patriotism there was wasn't sufficient in the least.

The technological/strategic side gets overlooked.  First, in the 30's,
many factories were moved deep into the Caucasus and Urals, and these
factories continued to produce.  Second, the tank technology of the USSR
was superior to the Germans.  Third, the USSR was the first nation to
develop massed rocket and missile installations (the ?Katyushkas?)
as anti-tank weapons, to enormous effect.

Fourth, the army was immensely strengthened by the command economy
structure.  This was because deserters and others who wouldn't follow
orders could be kept track of and punished after the war with a
reasonable certainty that if they didn't do what they were told,
the inevitable would take place.  Also, the army could get resources
from established command channels without great reorganization of
the economy.

Since Hitler was defeated in Stalingrad and Kursk, not Byelorussia
or the Ukraine, and since both those republics were stripped of
economic resources in the great retreat, I fail to see how a better
relationship between Hitler's army and the people of these republics
could have changed the war.  The Soviet Army would have retaken these
territories, in a manner similar to the taking of Eastern Europe.

Morale is more often the consequence of a superior or inferior balance
of forces than a cause.  For the military side of WWII, I'd recommend
you look at some wargames and wargame magazines.  A series which
recently appeared on US public TV, "War: a commentary by Gwynne Dyer",
was also very good as to the general context of military conflict,
and its relation to technology.

Tony Wuersch
{amd,amdcad!cae780}!ubvax!tonyw