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From: hijab@cad.UUCP (Raif Hijab)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Israeli torture?
Message-ID: <46@cad.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 12-Feb-86 14:07:37 EST
Article-I.D.: cad.46
Posted: Wed Feb 12 14:07:37 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 14-Feb-86 21:13:55 EST
References: <82@ubc-vision.UUCP> <3222@sun.uucp>
Organization: U. C. Berkeley CAD Group
Lines: 76
Summary: Evidence of Israeli torture is plenty!

In article <3222@sun.uucp>, cramer@sun.uucp (Sam Cramer) writes:
> 
> It appears that Farzin and Nidhal are moving up in the world of press smears
> on Israel.  
> 
> First, Farzin quotes us the august "Kayhann newspaper, published
> in London, England."  Of course, he refuses to answer any questions
> about this little known and most suspect source, stating that "I don't
> think there is a need to put that newspaper on trial.."
> 
> Then Nidhal, by now famous for his fatuous claims of Islamic tolerance 
> as exemplified by the regime of well known moderate Ayatollah Khomeini, 
> introduces the notorious and long discredited Sunday Times (also of London,
> England) article on "torture" of Arab prisoners in Israel.
> 
> Unfortunately for Nidhal, the Times article is no more credible than the
> anti-Israel fantasies of "Kayhaan".
> 
>  .
>  .
>  .
> 
> Sam Cramer	{decwrl, hplabs, seismo, ucbvax}!sun!cramer

Sam cramer and those with a similar mind bent are the best
example of the "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with the
facts" syndrome. They repeat a lie often enough to themselves
and others that they end up believing it. I would like to 
bring up the following points in support of the London Sunday
Times article:
1)  Amnesty International, the International Commission of
    Jurists and other international organizations have 
    reached similar conclusions about torture of Palestinian
    prisoners in Israerli jails. Law in the Service of Man's
    "The West Bank and the Rule of Law", Felicia Langer's
    "With My Own Eyes", reports of the Palestine Human Rights
    Campaign, and even U.S. state department reports address
    this issue.
2)  Early in the Carter administration, a vice consul at the
    American Consulate in Jerusalem, Alexandra Johnson, uncovered
    extensive torture reports while interviewing young Palestinian
    student visa applicants to the U.S. She collected the data
    and submitted a report to her superiors. Although initially
    praised by Secretary of State Vance, she was later fired,
    and ordered not to publish any of her findings.
3)  Numerous cases of Israeli abuse of Palestinians under
    occupation are reported frequently in the Jewish Press.
    Unfortunately, with the exception of a vigilant minority of
    Israelis, most Israelis have come to view such treatment
    of Palestinians as the accepted norm. 
4)  Most cases involving Palestinians are not tried in Israeli
    civilian courts, but rather in military courts set up by the
    occupation authorities. THe Judicial standards which Sam Cramer 
    refers to apply to Israeli citizens in Israeli civilian courts.
    The military courts contend they do not have to obey the same
    standards, pleading security reasons. Many of their deliberations
    are in secret. If a person is accused on the basis of someone's
    testimony more often than not they do not get know their accuser 
    or the text of the testimony. In addition, many of the reported
    cases of torture involve people kept under administrative
    detention without a charge. Arrest without charge is so
    common in the occupied territories that a sizable percentage of
    the adult Palestinian population has been through it.
5)  Israeli civilian courts, including the Supreme court, have more
    often that not refused to see cases due to the military occupation's
    assertion of the preminence of national security. This includes
    cases of prisoners as well as land expropriation and settler
    abuses.
6)  The last people likely to be credible witnesses to police and 
    judicial abuses of Palestinian prisoners are the Israeli 
    prosecutors, military judges and occupation authorities. The few
    cases where the Israeli authorities have admitted to these abuses
    had come out fully in the open so that it was not feasible to
    deny them. Invariably these incidents were explained away as
    "excesses by individuals". On the contrary, the record shows a
    systematic policy to terrorize the Palestinian population.