Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site umich.UUCP
Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!mb2c!umich!torek
From: torek@umich.UUCP (Paul V. Torek )
Newsgroups: net.politics.theory
Subject: Re: How Opposite are Reason and Force?
Message-ID: <462@umich.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 12-Feb-86 16:40:04 EST
Article-I.D.: umich.462
Posted: Wed Feb 12 16:40:04 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 14-Feb-86 07:33:59 EST
References: <441@umich.UUCP> <28200631@inmet.UUCP>
Reply-To: torek@umich.UUCP (Paul V. Torek )
Organization: University of Michigan, EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Lines: 29
Summary: 

In article <28200631@inmet.UUCP> janw@inmet.UUCP writes:
>>>To say that in normal circumstances the initiation  of  force  to
>>>gain  values  is irrational, is not to say force is irrational in
>>>all contexts. [examples].  Stealing  a  loaf  of  bread  in  Marie
>>>Antoinette's day may have been rational. It is certainly possible
>>>for man to devise political systems that  make  it  difficult  to
>>>distinguish the rational from the irrational.[Bob Stubblefield]
>
>>I have an important question here:  is stealing a loaf of bread in Marie
>>Antoinette's day an example of *initiating* force?  If so, you have
>>already conceded that it is sometimes rational to initiate force.  And
>>in that case, why isn't it rational to support certain laws (say, laws
>>that authorize taxation to pay for national defense, for example)?
>
>Bob makes an important distinction between *normal*  and  *abnor-
>mal*  circumstances. What you are saying is that the circumstance
>of a state having external enemies is abnormal enough to  *insti-
>tutionalize* the initiation of force against *own* citizens.

No, that's not my point.  What I'm wondering is what separates "normal"
from "abnormal" circumstances, and whether "abnormal" ones are really
abnormal at all.  Maybe they aren't -- maybe the very circumstances
we live in and can expect to live in for quite a while (those of having
external enemies) justify the use of force in taxation?  To put it 
differently, what is the difference between stealing the loaf of bread
in Antoinette's day on the one hand, and taxation for defense today on 
the other, that makes the first OK but the second wrong?

--Paul Torek						torek@umich