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From: meth@csd2.UUCP (Asher Meth)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: The Tragedy of Assimilation
Message-ID: <3780131@csd2.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 29-Jan-86 17:31:00 EST
Article-I.D.: csd2.3780131
Posted: Wed Jan 29 17:31:00 1986
Date-Received: Thu, 6-Feb-86 21:58:57 EST
References: <3780118@csd2.UUCP>
Organization: New York University
Lines: 110


Andrew Jonathan Fine writes :
---------------------------------------------
I cannot claim to be Jewish even though I was born so, because I am not capable
of faith.  I do not intend to marry within the religion unless by accident, 
since I will not reduce the probability of being married by being overly
selective.  In terms of children, I would allow circumcision for the male baby
to allow it the option of being Jewish upon maturity. This is the way I have
reconciled myself.  I hope it helps.
---------------------------------------------

We have a specific verse in the Torah forbidding marrying out of the faith.
This verse appears in the portion of Va-eschanan, Devarim/Dueteronomy 7:3, as
"Lo sischatein bum", do not intermarry with them. It then explicates that "you
shall not give your daughter to his son, nor shall you take his daughter for
your son". The rabbis have learned many laws concerning our interactions with
non-Jews from this verse. There are prohibitions against certain kinds of
interactions for they may lead to our becoming *very* close with them,
ultimately (G-d forbid) to intermarriage.

>In terms of children, I would allow circumcision for the male baby
>to allow it the option of being Jewish upon maturity. 

I mentioned in a previous posting that "circumcision does not a Jew make". Your
statement "to allow it the option of being Jewish" is puzzling. Option? Choice?
Some choice! You have told us of the shoddy Jewish education you received, your
possibility of marrying within the faith as only an accidental possibility,
perhaps even remote, with the resultant non-emphasis on Judaism in the home
upbringing, and then, if at maturity the child decides that (s)he wishes to be
Jewish, so be it. Why, you have stacked the deck against Judaism !!! If your
Jewish education and personal leanings are any barometer, how will your child
have *any* chance of even knowing what it means to be Jewish. Oh, that's right,
to be Jewish means to be "required to attend synagogue, Hebrew school, and to
go to the barmitzvah ... no dissent on my part [being] allowed, and [being]
forced to do these things no matter if I liked it or not". Sorry, that is *not*
what it means to be Jewish, not where I came from, not where my father and
mother came from, not where their parents came from, ... , and that is not the
way that it was introduced to our patriarchs and matriarchs, and not how it was
given to our ancestors at Sinai. The heritage we received at Sinai was very
different from that which you describe. What you describe is the result of 
a distortion, concocted by those who wished to change the law to accomodate 
their own lifestyles.

It is taught that before G-d gave his Torah to the Jews, he first offered it to
the other nations of the world. Each asked, "What is written in it?", was given 
a response, and said, "Sorry, I can't do that; it will inhibit my lifestyle; I
don't want your Torah." What were those things that would inhibit their
lifestyles ? We can list some of them right out of the ten commandments (and I
quote from this week's portion, Yisro/Yitro, Shemos/Exodus 20:2-14) : 

   You shall not have other gods before me (but what about all my idols & other 
things that I worship?);
   Do not use G-d's name in vain (but how will I be able to cuss & curse?);
   Remember the day of my Sabbath (what? and what about *my* day off?);
   Honor your father & mother (but what if they don't want to let me do
anything that I want?); 
   Do not kill (but that is my profession - I'm a hit-man; and how will I be
able to exert my influence over others if not by force?);
   Do not commit adultery (what? no mistresses? what about free choice and 
freedom to choose sexual partners at any time & place?);
   Do not steal (but how will I be able to afford my extravagant lifestyle? how
else will I be able to terrorize my neighbors so that I can feed my drug
problem? how will I feed my family?);
   Do not bear false witness (what? no perjury? you mean I have to tell the
truth? but I have made my living out of lying, falsifying records, etc.);
   Do not covet your fellow man's house, wife, and possesions (but that is what
my life is all about!).

When G-d offered the Torah to the Jews, they responded, Shemos/Exodus 19:8,
"And the whole nation responded, as one, and they said, all that G-d speaks we
will do/fulfill". Dare we come along and repudiate the heritage of our
ancestors because it doesn't quite fit into our lifestyles, it is inconvenient,
etc. !! This is the reason that the other nations were unwilling to accept the
Torah in the first place. The Jewish way is to folow the teachings of G-d, as
passed down to us through our rabbis.

As others have mentioned in previous postings, Jewish law defines a Jew as one
who is born from a Jewish mother, or who is converted according to the
prescribed laws for conversion (again, if you want to play the game of becoming
Jewish, you have to play according to the rules). If the mother is not Jewish
according to the law, then her child is not Jewish. Then, even if the child
were raised a Jew (whatever that means in such a home where the mother is not
Jewish), to really be Jewish and marry within the Jewish faith (s)he would
require a conversion. This can cause problems with respect to marriage
partners; e.g., there are certain laws governing whom a kohein (of the priestly
family of Aaron) may marry - he may not marry a convert.

May I unequivocally state that *all* those people born Jewish, of mothers who
really are Jewish, are considered Jews, regardless of their level of practice
or of observance. Thus, a Jew who considers himself under the banner of
Conservative or Reform, is no less a Jew than the Jew who considers himself
under the banner of Orthodox. This is *not* the "beef" we Orthodox have. There
is no "second-class" classification being affixed upon *anyone* who *is*
Jewish. Our "beef" is that we refuse to permit the hallowed name of "Jew" to be
applied to a non-Jew. Thus, conversions must be performed as per the defined
rules & regulations. (They can be found in Shulchan Aruch/Codes, Yoreh Deah,
volume 3. The chapter numbers are not at my fingertips.) Other than proper
conversion, a person is a Jew *only* if his/her *mother* is Jewish. We do *not*
distinguish Jew from Jew, rather Jew from non-Jew. And any campaign to besmirch
our religion and to deny the above, even if it is Jews who are doing the
accusing, is nothing but a big, fat lie.

I suggest, Mr. Fine, (as Mr. Klahr suggested in response to your original
posting), that you you try to learn more about your (our) religion; increase
your Jewish Intelligence Quotient. Hopefuly you will find your niche in
Judaism, and come to appreciate all that our ancestors went through. I hope
that when you find your partner in life, religion *will* be a positive aspect
of your relationship.

Asher Meth ....... meth@nyu-csd2.arpa ....... allegra!cmcl2!csd2!meth