Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.1 6/24/83; site ttidcc.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!bellcore!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!cmcl2!philabs!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe From: hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: the "programmer" title Message-ID: <128@ttidcc.UUCP> Date: Mon, 3-Feb-86 17:16:28 EST Article-I.D.: ttidcc.128 Posted: Mon Feb 3 17:16:28 1986 Date-Received: Fri, 7-Feb-86 20:17:50 EST References: <1711@ittatc.ATC.ITT.UUCP> <461@hoptoad.uucp> Reply-To: hollombe@ttidcc.UUCP (The Polymath) Distribution: net Organization: The Cat Factory Lines: 73 In article <461@hoptoad.uucp> laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura Creighton) writes: >In article <1711@ittatc.ATC.ITT.UUCP> yoda@ittatc.ATC.ITT.UUCP (Todd C. Williams [Jedi Knight]) writes: >> >> So the reason I don't say "programmer" is that I fear that someone >>will think I dropped out of high school, couldn't find a job, so I went to >>"COMPUTER TRAINING INSTITUTE" for 6 months, and... voila! Can anybody >>relate to that? I can. On the other hand, I also strongly relate to Laura's comments below. > ... All other things being equal, if I know you are making >a living as a programmer, and I know you never went to university (or went >to university and majored in something other than csc/ee) I wilkl assume that >you are real good -- until something you do tells me otherwise. Yes, but ... (-:. Actually I'd add a time dimension to the criterion. If you've been making a living as a programmer for 6 months or more and never formally studied I'd assume you at least have potential. I've met some entry-level tech-school graduates who couldn't get a handle on how "IF - THEN - ELSE" works after repeated explanations. (The specific person I'm thinking of was fired for incompetence after three months on the job). >The reason is simple. It is a lot easier to get a csc degree than it is to >be a good programmer.... Amen! > And anybody can get a csc degree on the basis of a >piece of university wallpaper. If you don't have the wallpaper, then you >must have received your job for some other reason -- and unless it is because >your father is the president of the company, any reason that a company would >choose to hand you money is a reason why I would probably like you. Insert your own snappy wise-crack here. (-:{ More seriously, I've met a wide assortment of programmers in the last few years and I haven't noticed that programming ability is significantly related to possession of a BSCS degree. Note I didn't say inversely related. I said _not_ releated. I snuck in the back door of the DP business with a Master's in clinical psych about 6 years ago. I'm still here, so I guess I'm doing something right. I know some people I wouldn't trust to program "Hello world" in BASIC who have or are about to get BSCS degrees. To get back to the original subject, the problem is the general public doesn't know enough about the DP business to distinguish between titles like "coder", "programmer", "systems analyst", "programmer-analyst", etc. In fact, these titles have different meanings at different companies. This makes it very difficult to explain succinctly, in one sentence, what one does for a living. Since this is the level of response expected for a polite inquiry, it's almost impossible to politely respond with anything meaningful. Also, many (most?) of us on the net could be described as programmers at some level. You could also call Cellini a jeweler, Heifitz a fiddle player, Joan Benoit a jogger, Antonio Stradivari a woodworker ... Even if we aren't in the same class as these, most of us suffer from enough personal pride to want to distinguish ourselves from the run of the mill. Perhaps we could benefit from Benjamin Franklin's example. On his gravestone he chose to have the words "Here lies Benjamin Franklin, Printer". (Then there's the old saying: Don't be so humble. You're not that good. (-: ) -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe) Citicorp(+)TTI 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. Geniuses are people so lazy they Santa Monica, CA 90405 do everything right the first time. (213) 450-9111, ext. 2483 {philabs,randvax,trwrb,vortex}!ttidca!ttidcc!hollombe