Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site hoptoad.uucp Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!sun!hoptoad!laura From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: Titles Message-ID: <494@hoptoad.uucp> Date: Fri, 7-Feb-86 17:29:50 EST Article-I.D.: hoptoad.494 Posted: Fri Feb 7 17:29:50 1986 Date-Received: Tue, 11-Feb-86 04:03:26 EST References: <4514@kestrel.ARPA> <3407@nsc.UUCP> <4588@kestrel.ARPA> Reply-To: laura@hoptoad.UUCP (Laura Creighton) Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco Lines: 65 Keywords: Computer Science, Bullshit about degrees In article <4588@kestrel.ARPA> ladkin@kestrel.ARPA writes: >I don't know whether this is a joke or not. >It is silly, but not very funny. It gives people the misleading >impression that you can get far in computer science without anything >but coding talent. This will be true for a very few. Or it will >restrict you to working for banks and job shops. >It's unlikely to get you working for Sun, Symbolics, Xenon, >Teknowledge, Intellicorp, SRI,....... I don't know about Symbolics, Xenon et al, but I do know a fair number of people who work for Sun. I just went down a mental list of people who either don't have any degrees at all, or have a degree in something other than computer science (like Urban Planning, or Geology). Guess what -- I just ran out of fingers and I didn't pause once. So -- Sun will hire you if you are good and don't have a csc or ee degree. It *is* possible to go very far in computer science without a degree. But you have to be very good. And coding talent is part of being very good -- it is evidence that you can think well. If you can think well, then you can learn whatever it is that you need to know to do your job well. Head for the Stanford University bookstore, buy interesting books on computer science, and read them. Bingo -- the benefits of a university education without having to spend all the $$. (If you are worried about getting a balanced education, get a copy of the booklist that Stanford students are using -- from any Stanford student there.) Assuming that you are good, then you can do this. This is not to say that you shouldn't go to university. It is possible to learn a great many things at university. And with a course of study you are unlikely to run into the problem of needing to read 7 books on other subjects before you can understand the one book that you *want* to be able to understand. And you will make a series of connections and contacts which are good forever. You will be exposed to a great deal of research (if you keep your eyes open -- and please do! --) and may discover what it is that you are really interested in. (Keep your eyes open in other depratments, as well. I went to unviersity to get a physics degree with a minor in mathematics, and by the time I left university (still without a degree, after 6+ years, but I was working full time in addition to going to school) it was clear that what I wanted to get was a degree in electrical engineering with a minor in philosophy. So, no degree, but at least I knew what I wanted to be when I grew up, which was something I never knew before...) And yes, if you have a university degree it will be easier to *get* hired. Staying hired is another story -- you really do have to be good to keep your job, degree or no degree most places -- but in an industry where the turn-over rate is something like a new job ever 40 months, you can always take your degree elsewhere if you don't work out -- again and again. What is the bottom line? You don't *need* a university degree -- but you will have to spend a lot of time reading if you don't have one, and you will have to be the sort of person who can learn from reading for this to do you any good. Going to university is an enjoyable way to learn a lot of things if you are so inclined, and probably worth the money if you are considering it. Getting a degree in no way guarantees that you will be any good as a programmer or engineer. -- Laura Creighton ihnp4!hoptoad!laura hoptoad!laura@lll-crg.arpa