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From: gt@umich.UUCP (Gus Teschke)
Newsgroups: net.college,net.politics
Subject: Re: Re: E.g. Student Gov't Project.
Message-ID: <472@umich.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 14-Feb-86 18:15:45 EST
Article-I.D.: umich.472
Posted: Fri Feb 14 18:15:45 1986
Date-Received: Sun, 16-Feb-86 03:55:20 EST
References: <449@umich.UUCP> <388@ihnp1.UUCP>
Distribution: net
Organization: University of Michigan, EECS Dept., Ann Arbor, MI
Lines: 84
Xref: watmath net.college:1060 net.politics:13435

In article <388@ihnp1.UUCP> frear@ihnp1.UUCP (L. Frear) replies:

>In article <449@umich.UUCP>, gt@umich.UUCP (Gus Teschke) writes:

>I think once again the MSA (Michigan Student Assembly) is getting out of
>line.  Someone please cut off their allowance!!!!!!!!

Perhaps you have the wrong idea about what MSA did.  It passed a resolution
to put a question before the students for a vote.  The question was:  should
any organization that supports or engages in terrorism be allowed to recruit
at the University of Michigan using UofM facilities?  If the students reply
no, then the administration may, but doesn't have to, set up a committee
to define terrorism and monitor the groups recruiting at UofM.  The committee
is composed of 3 administrators, 3 faculty, and 3 students.

Note that currently any group that does not sign an affirmative action 
pledge cannot recruit, nor can any corporations that have taken advantage
of students (like not paid them).

>Just because a handful of students don't like an organization doesn't mean
>they should bar that organization from campus.  

Lori, I'm not talking about the Young Republicans or the Chess Club.  The
CIA isn't merely unpleasant.  They engage in ILLEGAL and IMMORAL
activities, things like overthrowing elected governments (Guatemala
1954, Iran 195?, Chile 1973, still trying with Nicaragua), torture, and
murder.  There are numerous reports and I will provide references on
request.  If they were on trial at something like the Nuremburg trials
after WW II, some of the CIA decision-makers would likely be HANGED.

WHAT does a group have to do before you decide it should be opposed?

>Look, Gus, some people
>want to work for the CIA.  They want "exciting" work with the newest toys.
>They want to be James Bond or whatever.  Or they need the job, and don't
>have the same moral/political views as the MSA.

So?  Let them be recruited off campus.  No one is stopping anyone from
interviewing with the CIA, or working for the CIA.  We are just trying
to say that any organization that supports terrorism CANNOT use the
UofM facilities to interview students.  It's one way to show that we
don't support or ignore what the CIA does.  Part of a university's
function, and thus student government, is to criticize society, and
this seems to be a valid (if toothless) way of publicly showing that
UofM opposes the violation of some of the most sacred principles on
which the U.S. was founded, and apply a little public pressure on the
CIA.

>Before I catch any flack, I would like to say that I could NEVER do 
>military work, for the government or a corporation.  I find it
>morally unacceptable.  

A rather confusing morality, to me.

>Fortunately, I didn't have to take such a job.
>Many graduates do.  (If you don't work, you don't eat.)  I personally
>know a few fellow engineers who got offers only from defense contractors
>or the NSA -- BECAUSE OTHER INDUSTRIES WANTED GRADS WITH HIGHER
>GRADEPOINTS.  These guys were good at what they did.  Two of them 
>had a lot of relevant work experience (that's why their gpa's where low--
>iydw,yde)

As I said, they can still work for the CIA.  And you're saying that the CIA 
gets the people everyone else rejects?  Hmmm.

>This is too long already, so I'll stop.  After I note that as a member
>of the alumi association, I'll be trying to get the U to stop wasting
>students' precious cash on the MSA.

I wish I could get the government to stop wasting BILLIONS on the CIA's
outrages.  Note that they are also cutting student aid, Lori, but you
don't seem too concerned about that.

>			Lori Frear
>			ihnp4!ihnp3!frear
>
>			GO BLUE!!!!!!!
>			(or don't bother going at all)

Did you ever do any work in student government, or did you just go to
football games?

					Gus Teschke
					ihnp4!umich!gt