Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!mit-eddie!think!harvard!seismo!umcp-cs!aplcen!jhunix!ins_akaa From: ins_akaa@jhunix.UUCP (Ken Arromdee) Newsgroups: net.college,net.politics Subject: Re: CIA and terrorism Message-ID: <2041@jhunix.UUCP> Date: Sat, 1-Mar-86 01:42:06 EST Article-I.D.: jhunix.2041 Posted: Sat Mar 1 01:42:06 1986 Date-Received: Sun, 2-Mar-86 19:31:59 EST References: <705@ihlpm.UUCP> <473@umich.UUCP> <1903@jhunix.UUCP> <545@whuts.UUCP> <1969@jhunix.UUCP> <458@ubvax.UUCP> Reply-To: ins_akaa@jhunix.ARPA (Ken Arromdee) Organization: TARDIS Repairs, Inc. Lines: 63 Xref: watmath net.college:1171 net.politics:13655 In article <458@ubvax.UUCP> tonyw@ubvax.UUCP (Tony Wuersch) writes: >In article <1969@jhunix.UUCP> ins_akaa@jhunix.ARPA (Ken Arromdee) writes: >>>I think it is quite firmly established that the CIA supports terrorism. >>So what? It's still a legitimate political position to not think so. The >>people who take that position may be wrong, but that has no effect on my >>argument. >I fail to see what "legitimate" means here. In the world of 1984, it's >legitimate to think that Big Brother believes in peace. Whether the >CIA does or does not support terrorism is an ascertainable fact, not >a matter for democratic vote. If the Libyan population voted that >Khadafi was not involved in terrorism, how would that change anything? In a democracy, many things are matters for democratic vote, especially those matters that many people disagree on. It may be an ascertainable fact, but there is by no means agreement upon what has been ascertained. In the world of _1984_, only one viewpoint is legitimate. You seem to be saying that only one viewpoint, namely yours, is legitimate, while I am saying that either viewpoint is legitimate. In this respect, your position seems much closer to the world of 1984 than mine. >>If a vote was taken among a representative section of the student body, asking >>if the students believed both 1) that the CIA supports terrorism and 2) that >>that groups supporting terrorism, including the CIA, should be >>barred from campus, I could accept that. But from >>what has been said on the net, that seems not to be the case. Rather, the >>question is worded in such a way as not to mention the CIA, and people >>who don't believe the CIA supports terrorism would answer "yes" to the >>question, said "yes" votes then being used to claim that students want the CIA >>off campus, when in fact those particular "yes" votes mean nothing of the sort. >To add the CIA as a specific example adds nothing to such a resolution. >It doesn't sound to me like "yes" votes are being used to claim that >students want the CIA off campus. It does sound to me like "yes" votes >are being used to claim that terrorists should not recruit on campus. According to the original articles on the net that led to my posting, the resolution WAS aimed at the CIA, but didn't mention the CIA. Again, this seems to me like taking a poll of who thinks human life is sacred, then using the results to ban pro-abortion groups, showing the poll results as support for the ban. >The point of resolutions like these are to get people to vote on general >principles. Once that's done, the work is to see those principles carried >out. In my abortion analogy, the principle would be carried out--IF you believe abortion is murder. If you do not, you would not consider that to be carrying out of the principle. If the CIA is banned from campus on the grounds that it promotes terrorism, the principle would be carried out--IF you consider the actions of the CIA to be promotion of terrorism. But not everyone considers it to be so, and so it's deceit to take a vote on the general principle and then "carry out" the principle in this manner. -- "We are going to give a little something, a few little years more, to socialism, because socialism is defunct. It dies all by iself. The bad thing is that socialism, being a victim of its... Did I say socialism?" -Fidel Castro Kenneth Arromdee BITNET: G46I4701 at JHUVM and INS_AKAA at JHUVMS CSNET: ins_akaa@jhunix.CSNET ARPA: ins_akaa%jhunix@hopkins.ARPA UUCP: {allegra!hopkins, seismo!umcp-cs, ihnp4!whuxcc} !jhunix!ins_akaa