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From: ebh@bentley.UUCP (Ed Horch)
Newsgroups: net.cse
Subject: Re: Value of Computer Science degree
Message-ID: <611@bentley.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 4-Mar-86 16:33:59 EST
Article-I.D.: bentley.611
Posted: Tue Mar  4 16:33:59 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 7-Mar-86 05:44:52 EST
References: <1404@ames.UUCP> <3367@umcp-cs.UUCP> <1046@milano.UUCP> <25@gilbbs.UUCP>
Reply-To: ebh@bentley.UUCP (Ed Horch)
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Liberty Corner
Lines: 48

In article <25@gilbbs.UUCP> mc68020@gilbbs.UUCP (Tom Keller) writes:
>In article <1046@milano.UUCP>, wex@milano.UUCP writes:
>> I wonder if there are any new hackers being produced these days.  
>> Note, there are still many good programmers, theoreticians, etc. coming out,
>> but that spark that Charlie mentioned seems to be gone.
>> 
>   Hackers can only develop in an environment that is conducive to individual
>activity and non-structured persuit of self-determined goals.  The current
>atmosphere in most CS programs, and at virtually *ALL* college and university
>computing centers is not thusly conducive.  In many cases, such acticities
>are actively and viciously discouraged.

First, I'd like to thank these two for reminding us that the term "hacker"
is not the obscenity the news media has tried (with a lot of success) to
turn it into.

I associate the term "hacker," in its good connotation, with tenacity,
single-mindedness, and a desire to finish what one starts.  Although
these qualities do develop on an individual basis, they can still be
applied in a group environment.  It is this point that the colleges fail
to recognize.

I started programming at age 12, and got my first paycheck for it at 17.
I have attended two colleges, and will attend a third starting this fall.
(Obviously, I do not have a degree.)  At the first two schools, one a
respected private university in the Midwest, the other a state school
in the Deep South, this "you do it OUR way" attitude was prevalent.

At the first school, this was okay, since their curriculum taught the
kinds of things that, six years later, I now apply every day.  At the
second, however, they taught FORTRAN, COBOL, Assembly, you know what
I mean...  There wasn't one full professor in the entire computer
science department.  Was I crazy for quitting out of boredom and frus-
tration?  ("Are there any keypunches free?  Oh, the machine's down?")

This fall I'm going to try again.  To be honest, I don't expect to learn
anything about software there either, but I may learn something in
another field, like English.  But I figure that maybe the no-degree
stigma may finally be removed.  Put another way, I want the piece of
paper.  Also, a university is populated with people closer to my own
age, whereas my coworkers are usually just finishing grad school at
my age.  I don't agree with the way the system works, (my father, whose
income mine exceeds by 50%, still thinks I'll never amount to anything...)
but it never asked my opinion, so I have to play by its rules.

Then, maybe I'll amount to something.  :-(

-Ed Horch