Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!philabs!cmcl2!seismo!hao!nbires!boulder!cisden!udenva!fcarmody From: fcarmody@udenva.UUCP (Prince Caspian) Newsgroups: net.kids Subject: Spanking: no conflagrations needed, PLEASE!!! Message-ID: <1161@udenva.UUCP> Date: Sun, 23-Feb-86 23:18:29 EST Article-I.D.: udenva.1161 Posted: Sun Feb 23 23:18:29 1986 Date-Received: Wed, 26-Feb-86 08:21:57 EST Reply-To: fcarmody@udenva.UUCP (Prince Caspian) Organization: U of Denver Lines: 97 People, I can see this discussion could get out of hand real fast. That is why I wanted to keep it in my mailbox. This is a controversial topic at best, at worst it could start a conflagration. I can also see that I need to do some clarifying as to what *I* (as the person starting this discussion, I believe I have some license here) mean by a spanking. I have seen parents (and more importantly children) for whom it works, and this is what they have in common, as far as I can tell. 1) Spanking is *completely* reserved for instances involving A) direct defiance. This is either outright refusal of the child to obey an order, angry compliance, or post-tell-me-three-times resistance. (What happens after the third warning or reminder). B) Situations involving clear and present danger to the child's health or life. (In young ones, the electic cord/chemical/hot stove scene, in older kids, a spanking might be appropriate for stealing, etc.) 2) The decision to spank has been made *well before* the parent gets angry. (This most often means that the parent has set up a standard in his head: "If he crosses this line, it is time to spank." This *can* be done if the first guideline serves as the standard.) 3) The spanking is private, an encounter between parent and child. there is no attempt at humiliation, or angry scolding. There is no condemnation of the child anywhere in the parent's body language or attitude. Calmly, and firmly, the parent asks the child what the spanking is for. With the answer, the spanking begins. 4) This is the tricky part for some people. Spanking is with a neutral object (not the hand, not a belt) suitable for the purpose. I know of one family where each time a spanking would be necessary, the child and his mother would go outside, and the lecture would start as they walked through the yard, looking for a switch or stick to be used in the spanking. In the end, the boy had to choose for himself, based, I am told, on his own conscience. This seems like positive reinforcement of the lesson. 5) contact is as close as possible during the encounter (This favors over-the knee.) The spanking stops when healthy, releasing tears have begun, or some other sign at the parent's good judgement. (Tears should not be forced, but after they start, if at all, they should be certifiably genuine. A parent in tune with his child's responses will know the difference between cathartic tears and an act.) 6) When tears start (or after spanking ends, if repentance is sure without tears) the child is picked up for a *big*, warm hug, and *held* until crying stops. (Some children don't want that. Don't force it, but *don't* *walk* *away*.) Loving whispers help, things like "there, there" and so on. Encourage the child to "cry it out." Then, still cozy, discuss things for a bit. Let the situation resolve itself for both. 7) The spanking *ends* the issue, *even if it has to be repeated later*. Never bring up previous dirty laundry. That is what *I* mean by spanking. I don't mean it works all the time, even in the rare cases where these steps are followed exactly. Let me ask you the question I was really trying to get at in the first place : Do parents try to follow through that way? Do they succeed? If the dynamics are different from the "angry" spanking, the "I mean it" spanking, or abuse, then how so? If spanking hasn't worked for you, chances are at least one of the things I have mentioned is absent. IF AND ONLY IF it *has* worked for you, I want to know if it was because of these things. If you have tried it this way, to no effect, then tell me why you think it failed. The responses I recieved so far all express arguments which I am *well acquainted with* and *do not need to hear again*, although I do express thanks to the people who have submitted them. Sorry folks. I believe in spanking, at least this sort. That will not change, and I will not be responsable for flames arising from it. But *am I an isolated case*? Does it *work* when it is *loving*, and why? Can we change things so that "the rod" doesn't have such a bad name? How? WHERE DO YOU DRAW THE LINE? Sorry about the length. I am prepared to accept flames, and responses of other sorts, BUT ONLY IF THEY ARE MAILED, *NOT POSTED*. If you want to carry the ball over the net among yourselves, that's ok, BUT DON'T FLAME ME if a conflagration starts. I was as careful as I knew how to be on this one. In His Name, Caspian ****************************************************************************** no dour face on the part of the parent. -- - Prince Caspian of Narnia, AKA Francis X. Carmody Electronic Adress (UUcp only:{hplabs,seismo}!hao!udenva!fcarmody} OR: {boulder,cires,denelcor,cisden}!udenva!fcarmody The above opinions are my own, noone else in the known galaxy should be held responsable, except in the rare cases where they coincide with the opinions of Almighty God... In the above case, any disagreement with said opinions should be refferred directly to Him.... :w