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From: wcs@ho95e.UUCP (x0705)
Newsgroups: net.lang.f77,net.unix,net.unix-wizards,net.lang
Subject: Re: Any decent Fortrans under Unix ? Which machine ?
Message-ID: <518@ho95e.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 23-Feb-86 23:12:18 EST
Article-I.D.: ho95e.518
Posted: Sun Feb 23 23:12:18 1986
Date-Received: Wed, 26-Feb-86 08:13:29 EST
References: <173@cybavax.UUCP> <3274@sun.uucp>
Reply-To: wcs@ho95e.UUCP (Bill Stewart 1-201-949-0705 ihnp4!ho95c!wcs HO 2G202)
Distribution: net
Organization: AT&T Bell Labs, Holmdel NJ
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Xref: linus net.lang.f77:410 net.unix:6635 net.unix-wizards:14105 net.lang:1931

In article <3274@sun.uucp> guy@sun.uucp (Guy Harris) writes:
>> 	The Fortran users are unwilling to consider an Unix solution because
>> they believer that Fortran performance under Unix is woefully inadequate. I
>> have heard many informal reports to this effect and it certainly seems to be
>> firmly embedded in the folklore of Unix.
>
>As are a number of other incorrect or misleading claims.  There is no such
>thing as "FORTRAN performance under UNIX".  Which FORTRAN?  Which UNIX?
>.....[followed by good discussion of Fortran compilers]

The real issue your Fortran hackers should be worrying about isn't
performance (if they need MIPS, they can buy a Cray :-).  It's software
development support.  Unfortunately, there are two problems here:

	1) Most fortran hackers don't understand the question, much
		less know the tradeoffs of various systems.

	2) Those that do are used to *really complete libraries* that
		don't exist on the average Unix box.  They tend to say
		things like "Sure, there are good debuggers and
		interactive compilation is nice, but you expect I
		should rewrite EISPACK and IMSL when  I need them?".
		And they're right.  

If you need to support that community, you've got to give them the
library support they need so they can be productive.  IF you can't do
that, get a MicroVAX for them to work on in the daytime (while you run
UNIX on the real machine), and run VMS for them at night.  ( I got the
impression you were talking about VAX-sized machines.  If you're
talking about IBM-sized machines, run UTS in the daytime and VM at
night.)  Alternatively, find someone who makes a good library package, 
and force them into the twentieth century; real number-crunchers should
schedule their jobs to run overnight anyway because swapping/paging
will blow them away on a heavily loaded timesharing machine.

-- 
# Bill Stewart, AT&T Bell Labs 2G-202, Holmdel NJ 1-201-949-0705 ihnp4!ho95c!wcs