Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site mit-amt.MIT.EDU Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!genrad!mit-eddie!mit-amt!gerber From: gerber@mit-amt.MIT.EDU (Andrew S. Gerber) Newsgroups: net.motss Subject: Re: Gays and stereotypes. (A relativly young perspective) Message-ID: <86@mit-amt.MIT.EDU> Date: Sat, 15-Feb-86 12:22:25 EST Article-I.D.: mit-amt.86 Posted: Sat Feb 15 12:22:25 1986 Date-Received: Sun, 16-Feb-86 08:54:27 EST References: <83@mit-amt.MIT.EDU> <3234@sun.uucp> Organization: MIT Media Lab, Cambridge, MA Lines: 70 Keywords: diversity, acceptance Summary: misunderstaning abounds around here! In article <3234@sun.uucp>, blueskye@sun.uucp (Tim Ryan) writes: > In article 2498, gerber@mit-amt.MIT.EDU (Andrew S. Gerber) writes > > It's amazing when new people show up at a gay student > > group - many of them ALREADY act effemiate before they 'come out'. > > Many others never act effeminate. A few latch onto the 'dishing' > > etc., and grow more effeminate as time goes on. > > > > Of the many young gay men I know (17-23 yrs old), only about 1/4 of > > them would I say "act gay". Not that there's anything wrong with > > acting gay. Some people use it as a personal identity - for others, > > they fall in with a bunch of gay friends who all act effeminate and > > will follw suit. > > When I first came out, I was amazed by the number of guys who > > I met were effemniate. My gut reaction always was "I'm gay becasue I > > like men -- not men who act like women". > This posting disturbs me very much. Not because Andy Gerber dishes > about "effeminate" gay men, but because i've seen this attitude far > too often. I suppose it's the same old argument, but i am really > amazed at the number of people, homosexual and heterosexual, who > simply cannot accept diversity as a useful, interesting, and enriching > experience. It bothers the hell out of me. My immediate take is that > if gay men can't accept other gay men who are different (in whatever > respect--butch, fem, black, white, fuschia, catholic, jewish, muslim, > whatever difference) then how can we deal with our own fundamental > "difference" from the "rest of the world?" I think you missed totally the point of my posting. In fact, I know you did. What I was trying to say was that as homosexuality is more accepted, people will find it less neccesary to act effeminate and be the "typical" homosexual that is often thought of by the media, by straight adults, etc.. Did you ever see Mel Brooks "To be or Not to be"? The homosexual from that movie is an example of the sterotypical homosexual that so many people carry around in their minds. Everyone should be exactly what they want to be. They should act exactly as they feel like acting. WHAT I WANT is enough freedom so people won't FEEL that to be gay, they need to act like women, use 'she' when talking about a guy, etc. If they WANT to do that, let them have fun doing it! But I think the whole desire to act that way ARISES from the sterotypical view of homosexuals that exists in our society. Think of it this way. When someone is coming out, when they are finally realizing what they are - unless they have a gay brother, a gay friend, etc, they have NO OTHER VIEW of homosexuals except for those that they see in the media, from their parents, and from what their friends tell them. IF YOU REMEMBER, THIS ISN'T VERY COMPLIMENTARY! It's full of words like "fairy", "sissy", "queer", and others I'd rather not repeat. So what do you do? Well, you just might start acting they way you "think" you're supposed to act. Like the media view of homosexuals. By doing this, you help fuel the continuance of these views. In some ways, you're letting the outside world (straight) determine what you act/look/talk like. In terms of "differences", I didn't say anything against {black, white, red, green, tall, short, *} people in my posting. -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Andrew S. Gerber MIT '87 Visible Language Workshop | | gerber@mit-amt.MIT.EDU, gerber@mit-mc.lcs.mit.edu, gerber@athena.mit.edu | | UUCP: decvax!mit-eddie!mit-amt!gerber decvax!mit-eddie!mit-athena!gerber | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+