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Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!decwrl!amdcad!amdahl!gam
From: gam@amdahl.UUCP (G A Moffett)
Newsgroups: net.news
Subject: Results of mod.map Expiration Poll
Message-ID: <2809@amdahl.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 19-Feb-86 04:04:42 EST
Article-I.D.: amdahl.2809
Posted: Wed Feb 19 04:04:42 1986
Date-Received: Thu, 20-Feb-86 00:17:04 EST
Expires: Tue, 18-Mar-86 03:00:00 EST
Reply-To: gam@amdahl.UUCP (G A Moffett)
Organization: Amdahl Corp, UTS Products Group
Lines: 117
Summary: 15-19, with one abstention

RAW DATA

	The question was:

	"Should the Usenet/UUCP map postings to mod.map have extended
		expiration dates?"

	The votes were:

		Yes:	15
		No:	19
		Abstain: 1

ANALYSIS

	Many of the "no" votes reported that they keep the maps not in
	mod.map, but stored elsewhere (possibly via uuhosts).  The
	postings themselves are not useful until processed, at which
	point the postings can be thrown away.  A few of them suggested
	that the expiration date on the map postings be as short as
	five days -- or even two!

	The commentary with some of the "yes" votes pointed out that
	was convienient to have the maps on-line in mod.map for 30 days
	because they are reposted (presumably updated) every 30 days --
	thus mod.map *always* contains the current map data by
	default.  Some were concerned that naive sites would wonder
	where the maps are if they expired after the default 14 days.

SOLUTIONS

	Both sides reported that, whatever the decision, each could
	handle things as they wished.  In the current state of affairs,
	if you don't want the maps in mod.maps around for longer than
	the default time, you set up your daily expire thus:

		expire -n all                   # expire as usual
		expire -n mod.map -i -e 14      # force mod.map to conform

	Likewise, if the extended expiration date on the mod.map
	postings were removed, you could retain the maps for 30 days
	thus:

		expire -n all, !mod.map         # expire as usual, *except* mod.map
		expire -n mod.map -e 30         # expire mod.map after 30 days

	It was this particular solution, in fact, that prompted my
	protest of the current state of things:  wouldn't people who
	*didn't* want the maps around for 30 days not like to have to
	run expire twice on their system?  There was only one voter who
	mentioned that running expire twice would be too much bother,
	and this person wanted the maps around for 30 days.

	[ As a footnote, Tony Hansen (pegasus!tony) pointed out that
	  expiring mod.map early need not be done by expire.  A simple
	  matter of:

		find /usr/spool/news/mod/map -type f -mtime +14 \
			-print | xargs rm -f

  	  would accomplish the task, too.  Note that
	  "-print | xargs rm -f" can be replaced with
	  "-exec rm -f {} \;" if you don't have xargs. ]

OPINION

	I raised this issue not so much for my own needs (the mighty
	Amdahl 470 does four passes of expire every night), but for the
	benefit of those sites whose news disc is full, much of the
	fullness provided by mod.map.  I have learned that people with
	full discs have a way to deal with the current state of
	affairs, seemingly without much protest.

	After this, I see that things are not as bad off as I had
	thought.  The expiration date of those postings is not
	inflexible, and each site can deal with it as they wish.

	While I appeared to vote against the extended expiration dates
	at the beginning, I have been slow shifting towards neutrality
	on this issue (I did not make the `abstain' vote).  If the
	decision were left in my hands now, even given the vote, I
	would not change the expiration of mod.map postings.  As one
	voter, Scott Orshan (bellcoreau1100a!sdo), put it:

> What I was trying to say was that my vote is YES, but votes shouldn't
> necessarily decide this issue.  Votes are very selfish.  This issue
> affects the net as a whole.


SUMMARY

	The poll is complete.  The decision is left to Mark Horton, who
	posts the maps to mod.map, as to whether the expiration dates
	on those postings will be changed or not.

SEE ALSO

	The original mail and Usenet articles that made up the votes is
	availalbe on request.

	The manual page for expire(8) will describe the various options
	you have to expire newsgroups.  In particular, see the -e, -I
	and -i options.

	Uuhosts(1) provides a means to manage map postings; see it's
	man page.

	The _Standard of Interchange of USENET Messages_ describes the
	"Expires: " line in the article header, and what its format
	should be.
-- 
Gordon A. Moffett		...!{ihnp4,seismo,hplabs}!amdahl!gam

 ~ And what is truth? ~
 ~ Is truth unchanging law? ~
 ~ We both have truths ~
 ~ Are mine the same as yours? ~