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From: john@cisden.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.nlang
Subject: Re: Re: Harbors and harbours
Message-ID: <528@cisden.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 25-Feb-86 17:52:47 EST
Article-I.D.: cisden.528
Posted: Tue Feb 25 17:52:47 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 1-Mar-86 04:20:59 EST
References: <1180@utai.UUCP> <1045@lsuc.UUCP> <2788@sunybcs.UUCP> <395@snow.warwick.UUCP> <883@kuling.UUCP> <1047@terak.UUCP>
Reply-To: john@cisden.UUCP (John Woolley)
Organization: ConTel Information Systems, Denver
Lines: 41

In article <1047@terak.UUCP> suze@terak.UUCP (Suzanne Barnett) writes:
>	In general, a phoenetic spelling of a foreign place
>name (as pronounced by the natives) should suffice. Though I
>agree that an American or English tourist traveling in Deutchland
>might never find their way from a Deutch map unless they knew
>that Koln is the same as Cologne, Munchen is the same as Munich, etc.
>But, in all of these, notice that the English/American pronunciation
>is vastly different from the Deutch pronunciation.

I think I disagree.  It's entirely natural (and not a bit wrong) to have
different words in different languages referring to the same thing.  That's
much of what languages are, after all. 

Munich and Cologne are things that have words attached to them.  Just 
because they're (now) in Germany, why should we have to pronounce them the
way Germans do?  (Which Germans?  And what if France takes Cologne again,
do we then have to revise all our books and maps?)  How many Americans
can pronounce "Koeln" and "Muenchen", anyway?  (Besides, you'll notice that
"Muenchen" and "Koeln" are a lot further from the *real* names of those
cities -- Monacum and Colonia -- than "Munich" and "Cologne" are. (-: )
And how would you propose we spell those words -- we don't have a way to
represent either vowel or that voiceless fricative in English.

Should Spanish speakers really have to learn to say "The United States"
instead of "los Estados Unidos"?  Should Americans be forced to learn to
gurgle when they say "France"?  Can you say "Madrid" like a Spaniard?  Do
we all need to learn to speak on multiple pitches before we can mention
Bangkok or Shanghai?

>How would you like it if someone deliberately mispronounced
>your name and seemed to insist that they, not you, were
>correct?

The question's not really one of mispronouncing or being Correct, but of
deciding which language you're speaking.  In Latin I say "Anglia", in
English "England", in French "Angleterre", and so on.  An Englishman would
have to be pretty silly to get insulted at that.
-- 
				Peace and Good!,
				      Fr. John Woolley
"Compared to what I have seen, all that I have written is straw." -- St. Thomas