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From: orb@whuts.UUCP (SEVENER)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Reply to Sevener on Property Rights
Message-ID: <549@whuts.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 19-Feb-86 09:36:35 EST
Article-I.D.: whuts.549
Posted: Wed Feb 19 09:36:35 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 22-Feb-86 09:03:56 EST
References: <1691@bbncca.ARPA> <536@whuts.UUCP> <1636@ihlpg.UUCP> <540@whuts.UUCP> <1641@ihlpg.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 59

> > > [Me]
> > > There you go again, Tim.  There is absolutely no relation between the
> > > situations in the U. S. and the Soviet Union.  Neither the U. S.
> > > government, nor state or local governments, have attempted to curtail
> > > your rights to distribute literature.  The only question is whether
> > > the owner of private property should be able to outlaw the distribution of
> > > literature (political or otherwise) on their property.  My opinion is that,
> > > with only a few exceptions, they can.  
> --------
> > [Tim Sevener] 
> > The US government most certainly *is* curtailing my right to distribute
> > literature when its police authority is used to prevent my
> > exercise of that right.
> --------
> NO! NO! NO!  The local police are acting on a complaint of the owner
> of the private property.  What does this have to do with the US govt?
> Also, the police do not have the power to decide the mall is a public
> thoroughfare.  Only the legislatures or courts can do that.  Prior to
> the court ruling, the police would be remiss in not arresting you for
> tresspass on complaint of the mall owner.
>  > Bill Tanenbaum - AT&T Bell Labs - Naperville IL  ihnp4!ihlpg!tan

Do you know the facts of this case? Because I expected to encounter a
hassle from the mall management and the police I brought with me copies
of several court rulings from various malls in New Jersey.  That
didn't matter one whit to the police officer OR the management.
In order to protect my civil rights do I have to go into court umpteen
million times?  Another mall had *already* been successfully sued
for preventing the Passaic County Nuclear Freeze from distributing
literature.  That didn't matter - they booted me out but said I could
call to get a table.  I was suspicious but willing to go along with 
their restrictions.  So what happens?
1)the management can hardly be tracked down to reserve a table.
  Finally to resolve the issue a Freeze member took 3 hours off of
  work and planted herself in the manager's office until she would
  talk to her
2)the Freeze member said she wanted a table for the next weekend:
  sorry, the manager said, but you *MUST* reserve the table for the
  whole week
3)OK, the Freeze member said, we want a table for the whole week
  sorry, the manager said, but you must reserve the table for the
  whole week thirty days in advance
4)OK, the Freeze member said, we would like to reserve the table for
  the whole week thirty days from now
  sorry, the manager said, but you must send me a letter on your
  organization's letterhead stationery and THEN I can send you
  an application. (thereby meaning another two week delay while
  the "official letterhead" stationery from the Freeze is processed
  and then an application (maybe) is returned from the mall, which
  then must be sent back again
5)OK, the Freeze member said, we don't have "official letterhead"
  stationery but we will make some and send you a letter requesting
  an application for a table. By this time it will have to be for
  November or December.
  sorry, the manager said, but you can NOT reserve a table at ANY TIME
  during November and December because of the Christmas rush
 
And so goes civil rights in the US of A.......
        tim sevener   whuxn!orb