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From: hijab@cad.UUCP (Raif Hijab)
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Forced Landing
Message-ID: <57@cad.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 23-Feb-86 04:28:29 EST
Article-I.D.: cad.57
Posted: Sun Feb 23 04:28:29 1986
Date-Received: Mon, 24-Feb-86 08:42:55 EST
References: <251@aero.ARPA> <11000121@uiucdcsb> <52@cad.UUCP> <618@ihlpl.UUCP>
Organization: U. C. Berkeley CAD Group
Lines: 91
Summary: Who's getting sick? (long)

In article <618@ihlpl.UUCP>, brandx@ihlpl.UUCP (H. D. Weisberg) writes:
> > 
> It was the Arabs ( who objected to Jewish immigration
> and accomplishmnts on what was once useless land). They made
> raids on Jewish land and, hence, began terrorists.

Jewish settlements were mostly built on choice land taken away
from tennant farmers (see for example "Zionism, False Messiah" by
Nathan Weinstock, publ. by Ink Links 1979, p. 80).

> > were the first to refine it into an instrument of policy.
> Sounds to me like you're giving a perfectly good description
> of several Arab countries that come to mind.

From the same reference (p.250), "the Haganah adopted  a ruthless
reprisals policy in order to terrorize the Arab population,
blowing up large numbers of houses in the Old City of Jerusalem
and in often absolutely inoffensive Arab villages."

As a further example, from David Hurst's "The Gun and the Olive
Branch" (Faber and Faber 1977), about the terrorizing of Iraqi
Jews in 1951, "They learned that the three explosions were the 
work not of Arab extremists, but of the very people who sought
to rescue them; of a clandestine organization called 'The Movement',
whose leader ... had received this letter from Yigal Allon, ..."
The full story is told on p. 157.

> This is bulshit.  Israeli action has always been premeditated
> by Arab agression.  

From Livia Rokach's "Israel's Sacred Terrorism:A Study Based on
Moshe Sharett's Personal Diary" (AAUG 1980) the following quote
by A former prime minister of Israel, "I have been meditating on
the long chain of false incidents and hostilities we have invented,
and on the many clashes we have provoked which cost us so much
blood, ..."  The book describes a wide range of Israeli acts of
provocation. I believe the original Hebrew text is available in
Israel, though not in this country.

> Even if Israel had shelled Southern Lebanon,
> would this justify murdering schoolchildren in Kiryat Shmona.

I suppose Israel's bombs were killing only "evil murderous terorists" ?

> BTW, in some cases, radical Palestinians had a strange way of expressing
> disagreement with "prominent Palestinian intellectuals" (THEY killed 'em)
> You have your mind mixed up.

In his book "The Zionist Connection" (North American 1978, p.840), 
Alfred Lilienthal lists nine people killed in the span of one year in
1972-1973, including Palestinian playright GHassan Kanafani, poet
Kamal Nasser and writer Wael Zuaiter. Israel's Mossad claimed the
credit for most of these incidents, many of which took place in 
Europe. Since that time, many others have fallen in the same manner.

> > It is also worth while to note that long before the recent
> > rash of incidents in the mediterranean and Europe, Israel
> > shot down a Libyan commercial jet in a manner not different
> > from the Korean airliner incident. As usual, there were plenty
> > of people to rationalize its action, which caused the death
> > of over 200 innocent passengers.
> I must confess my ignorance here (I'm sure someone else can address this.)

The incident took place on February 21, 1973, and resulted in the death
of 110 (not over 200, sorry) passengers and crew (Lilienthal p. 372).

> You try to make Israel the scapegoat for all the problems.  You conveniently
> get the facts mixed up and twist them.  Frankly, I'm getting sick of
> reading ignorance and lies that you and Farzin and Chedley go around
> spreading.  You state your cases and when they're disproved you dig up
> another lie.  One that sticks out in my mind is the one about how Arafat
> and the PLO recognize Israel and the UN resolutions and all that.

The references I have quoted are corroborated by others.
Arafat has accepted ALL UN resolutions on Palestine, collectively.
These resolutions in various places recognize the state of Israel,
as well as the right of the Palestinians to a state of their own.
The PLO is not prepared to accept resolutions 242 and 338 in isolation
because they do not address Palestinian rights, but simply "the refugee
problem". Further, they have expressed their willingness to start
negotiations without reference to these resolutions, as long as they
are considered an equal partner. This the United States and Israel
have refused.

> I guess King Hussein isn't as well-informed as you are.  Didn't he just
> give up on the PLO (I didn't say the Palestinians) because they refuse
> to denounce terrorism and recognize Israel?

I am not informed on the nuances of Hussein-Arafat negotiations. 
However, these involve a variety of ticklish issues apart from the
question of resolution 242.