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From: cramer@kontron.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.politics
Subject: Re: Television coverage and censorship in Canada (in net.columbia??)
Message-ID: <533@kontron.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 24-Feb-86 12:41:26 EST
Article-I.D.: kontron.533
Posted: Mon Feb 24 12:41:26 1986
Date-Received: Thu, 27-Feb-86 05:18:44 EST
References: <6396@utzoo.UUCP> <514@kontron.UUCP> <11501@watnot.UUCP>
Organization: Kontron Electronics, Irvine, CA
Lines: 82

> In article <514@kontron.UUCP> cramer@kontron.UUCP (Clayton Cramer) writes:
> >> >What about that guy the Canadian Government sent to prison for publishing
> >> >the claim that the Holocaust didn't happen?  Two years in prison, I believe
> >> >was the sentence.  If that isn't political censorship, what is?
> >> 
> >> Hmmm. Perhaps. Hate censorship is a better way to put it.
> >> 
> >
> >Politics and hate are inseparable (at least the way most politicians 
> >practice it).
> >
> >> The individual refered to is doubtless Ernst Zundel, a rabid neo-Nazi
> >> who lives in Canada but is not a Canadian, and who has stated publicly 
> >> and repeatedly that
> >
>                                ^
>                                |____ As I recall the used to be some more
>                                      information here that has been edited
>                                      out.
> 
> In effect this extra stuff said that Mr. Zundel was not prosecuted for 
> what he said.
>                                  

If he wasn't prosecuted for what he wrote, why was it relevant that he
wrote a book claiming the Holocaust didn't happen?  That's why it WAS 
an issue.

> >American law recognizes that the right of free speech applies even to
> >those illegally in our country.  What's Canada afraid of?
> >
> >> 1. Hitler remains one of his heroes.
> >> 2. There is an international Jewish conspiracy, etc.
> >> 3. The Holocaust is a Jewish lie, etc.
> >> This Zundel has repeatedly published anti-semitic hate literature 
> >> and supports and is financially supported by 
> >> a variety of neo-Nazi groups.  He was jailed because actively inciting hatred
> >> against any identifiable group in Canada is illegal.  
> >> (Zundel may be deported after his release from prison.)
> >> 
> >
> >Just because his beliefs are repugnant doesn't justify throwing someone in
> >jail for expressing those beliefs.  That's something that totalitarian
> >governments do.
> 
> You are missing the point again.  He was jailed for inciting hatred.
> We are not just talking about someone that says bad things, we are talking
> about someone that encourages others to hate people. 
> 

Care to give me a clear distinction between Zundel inciting hatred and a
Marxist promoting "class struggle"?

> >
> >> It is certainly not clear to this reader why such an example equates the
> >> censorship of the media in Canada to the USSR.  As other submissions have
> >> indicated, there is no such equivalence.
> >> 
> >
> >2 + 2 == 5
> >
> >It doesn't matter how many people say it -- it's still not true.  Your
> >arguments above are arguments in favor of suppressing ANYTHING that is 
> >generally held to be offensive.  How do differentiate this attitude from
> >the more extreme form of the idea used by totalitarian governments.
> >
> >
> >> Name:   Richard Snell
> >> Mail:   Dept. Zoology, Univ. Toronto
> >>         Toronto, Ontario, Canada    M5S 1A1
> >> UUCP:   {allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!snell
> >
> >Clayton Cramer
> 
> Jim Boritz Waterloo, Ontario.  Home of Censorship and Media control.
> 
> jjboritz@watnot.UUCP

Clayton Cramer

"Television evangelism is to evangelism as
television journalism is to journalism."