Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 exptools; site ihlpa.UUCP
Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!ihlpa!jho
From: jho@ihlpa.UUCP (Yosi Hoshen)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Racism and Judaism
Message-ID: <1149@ihlpa.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 25-Feb-86 14:14:20 EST
Article-I.D.: ihlpa.1149
Posted: Tue Feb 25 14:14:20 1986
Date-Received: Thu, 27-Feb-86 05:28:15 EST
References: <8602201930.AA22598@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> <1144@ihlpa.UUCP> <1047@unc.unc.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 59

>From Frank Silberman
>What does it mean "to be a Jew?"  Is there any way to characterize
>the Jewish people other than by religion?  If a person rejects the
>religious aspects, then in what sense is he a Jew?  I may claim
>to be a Jew because my parents were Jews, but eventually I must
>find somebody in my family tree who was religious.  Without the
>the Jewish religion, how can there be Jews?

Frank Silberman asks:  What does it mean to be a Jew?  Unfortunately,
he gives an Answer according to Frank Silberman.  His answer is that
religion kept the Jews as Jews through the ages.  I think that it is
irrelevant why there are Jews today.  The fact is that there are Jews.
My problem is with the religion.  My view is that the Jewish religion
is a form of superstition. And as such, I cannot find myself bound to
other Jews by superstition.  On the other hand, it did not make any
difference to Hitler whether you are a religious Jew or an atheistic
Jew.  He reserved a place for you in his ovens.  The modern Zionist
movement was secular.  Herzel, who predicted the advent of the new anti-
Semitism and the modern state of Israel, was probably an atheist.  
The religionists, who had been waiting for the messiah for two
thousand years, were late joiners to the Zionist movement.  If
Jews would have continued waiting for the messiah then we would
probably have few more hundred thousand Jews dead in Europe, and
the Jews of the Arab word would be still living in fear.

>Israel was founded so that Jews might find relief from persecution.
>But with the exception of the Nazi period, we've always had the option
>of escaping persecution by abandoning our religion.  This was true
>during the Spanish Inquisition, as well as in communist countries today.

I totally agree with your assertion that Israel was formed because of
persecution of Jews.  However, I don't think that Israel was formed
so that Jews who were fleeing from one form of oppression, would find
a new form of coercion in their own country.  The laws that the
religionists in Israel have pushed through the Kneset and are still
trying to push can only be viewed as "g'zerot" imposed by a minority
on the secular majority.  It is inconceivable to me and to many others
that a silly religion should be the basis for Israel.  The way to
reach harmony is for the religionist to respect the secularist
desire to be free from religious coercion.  I would like to view
the Jewish religion as a modern Greek views the Greek Mythology, as 
a part of my history, but not something that I would be coerced to
live by.

>This leads to sensitive questions about the purpose of Zionism.
>When a person renounces Judaism, in what sense is he different
>from a gentile?  Why should such a person want to live in a
>Jewish state?  Why should immigration laws apply differently
>to him than to a Moslem or a Christian?  In Israel, a Jew can
>renounce his religion and still receive preferential treatment
>in immigration.  This is what leads our enemies to suspect that
>Zionism must have some racial motive.  What can we say in reply?

I think that I have answered the question on the purpose of Zionism.
Zionism deals with national issues rather then religious issues.
Also, I don't think our enemies need any apologies for what we are.
-- 
Yosi Hoshen, AT&T Bell Laboratories
Naperville, Illinois,  Mail: ihnp4!ihlpa!jho