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From: fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann)
Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish
Subject: Re: Racism and Judaism
Message-ID: <1072@unc.unc.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 3-Mar-86 15:25:37 EST
Article-I.D.: unc.1072
Posted: Mon Mar  3 15:25:37 1986
Date-Received: Thu, 6-Mar-86 19:17:15 EST
References: <8602201930.AA22598@ucbvax.berkeley.edu> <1144@ihlpa.UUCP> <274@bocar.UUCP> <152@simon_pc.UUCP>
Reply-To: fsks@unc.UUCP (Frank Silbermann)
Organization: CS Dept, U. of N. Carolina, Chapel Hill
Lines: 49
Summary: 


Me:
>> > When a person renounces Judaism, in what sense is he different
>> > from a gentile?  Why should such a person want to live in a
>> > Jewish state?  Why should immigration laws apply differently
>> > to him than to a Moslem or a Christian?  In Israel, a Jew can
>> > renounce his religion and still receive preferential treatment
>> > in immigration.  This is what leads our enemies to suspect that
>> > Zionism must have some racial motive.  What can we say in reply?

Barry Siegel:  How true how true..

Simon Shapiro writes: (In article <152@simon_pc.UUCP> simon@simon_pc.UUCP)
>To me, a declared atheist, living in Israel, serving in the army, 
>protecting & maintaning "Arey Miklat" for us all, is a lot more Jewish
>that someone living comfortly in the US, donating money and complaining
>that Israel or Zionism are equivalent to fascism.  Where were you, 
>pious people when Jews were slaughtered in Europe?  Voting for the
>same administration that refused sanctuary to the lucky ones that
>escaped (Cuba took them).

No need to get personal here.  I am not at all what you imagine.

>I am jewish.  I was born & raised in Israel.  I served in the IDF for 
>five years.  I participated in three wars.  I did my share.  I never
>complained.  I was to the synogogue no more than three times in my life.
>I did NOT have a Bar-Mitzva.  I am more Jewish than both of you!

I do honor you for your contribution -- you risked your life for us all.
But fighting is not enough.  We must always know exactly what we are
fighting for, lest we be tricked into fighting for evil.  You fought
to protect the Jewish people.  But who are we?  Someday a fight may
arise between two peoples, each claiming to be the "true" Jews.
How will we know which side to take, if we have no reasonable definition
of "Jewishness"?

>When Hitlers troops collected Jews and turned them into soap and lampshades,
>No one checked their beliefs.  If you were a bona fide Jew, child of one,
>grandchild of one or grandgrandchild of one, off to the gas chamber you
>go.  So a Jew has a right to find refuge in Israel, whether he is a true
>beliver (by whose definition?) or not.

Do you favor letting Hitler's warped ideas define Jewishness for you?
I think Jews should define Jewishness, rather than letting the outside
world decide for us.  In none of my postings have I claimed to have
the answer.  The Orthodox believe they have the answers; I only ask
whether anyone has an alternative definition that makes sense.

	Frank Silbermann