Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site decwrl.DEC.COM Path: utzoo!lsuc!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!gamma!epsilon!zeta!sabre!petrus!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-elwood!simon From: simon@elwood.DEC (Product Safety 237-3521) Newsgroups: net.religion.jewish Subject: Nationality and Racism Message-ID: <1467@decwrl.DEC.COM> Date: Tue, 4-Mar-86 04:42:48 EST Article-I.D.: decwrl.1467 Posted: Tue Mar 4 04:42:48 1986 Date-Received: Thu, 6-Mar-86 19:20:37 EST Sender: daemon@decwrl.DEC.COM Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 70 Summary: religion & nationality... Being Jewish > In article <274@bocar.UUCP>, sieg@bocar.UUCP (B A Siegel) writes: > >> When a person renounces Judaism, in what sense is he different > >> from a gentile? Why should such a person want to live in a > >> Jewish state? Why should immigration laws apply differently > >> to him than to a Moslem or a Christian? In Israel, a Jew can > >> renounce his religion and still receive preferential treatment > >> in immigration. This is what leads our enemies to suspect that > >> Zionism must have some racial motive. What can we say in reply? > >> > >> Frank Silbermann > > > > How true how true.. > > > > Barry Siegel >When Hitlers trrop collected Jews and turned them into soap and lampshades, >No one checked their beliefs. If you were a bona fide Jew, child of one, >grandchild of one or grandgrandchild of one, off to the gas chamber you >go. So a Jew has a right to find refuge in Israel, wether he is a true >beliver (by whose definition?) or not. > >To me, a declared atheist, living in Israel, serving in the army, >protecting & maintaning "Arey Miklat" for us all, is a lot more Jewish >that someone living comfortly in the US, donating money and complaining >that Israel or Zionism are equivalent to fashism. Where were you, >pious people when Jews were slaughtered in Europe? Voting for the >same administration that refused sanctuary to the lucky ones that >escaped (Cuba took them). > >I am jewish. I was born & raised in Israel. I served in the IDF for >five years. I participated in three wars. I did my share. I complained. >I was to the sinagouge no more than three times in my life. I did NOT >have a Bar-Mitzva. I am more Jewish than both of you! > >Simon. A definition of a Jew is rather simple. A Jew is a person who practices Judaism OR was born by a Jewish mother. I believe this definition is used in Israel. The state of Israel was created to protect Jews, whether religious or not. Strangly enough, the same definition was used by both Nazi Germany and modern Soviet Union. I am Jewish, born in Moscow. I had an internal passport which stated "Jewish" right underneath my name. Nobody asked me if I was religious or not (as a matter of fact I was not then). But it didn't prevent the authorities from not letting me to go to a college of my choice, to choose the job I wanted, to make promotions harder, etc. But when I applied for emigration, then, after a few years of waiting and one refusal (I was a refusnik) I was allowed to go to Israel! --- Leo Simon Digital Equipment Corp. 333 South St. Shrewsbury MA, 01545 (617)841-3521 DTN 237-3521 Mail Stop SHR-4/D26 (UUCP) {decvax, ucbvax, allegra}!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-elwood!simon (ARPA) simon%elwood.DEC@decwrl.ARPA You realize of course that all of the above does not have anything to do with my employer.