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From: hankb@teklds.UUCP (Hank Buurman)
Newsgroups: net.sf-lovers,net.women
Subject: Women in sf/fantasy summary
Message-ID: <1661@teklds.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 20-Feb-86 01:10:15 EST
Article-I.D.: teklds.1661
Posted: Thu Feb 20 01:10:15 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 21-Feb-86 02:57:58 EST
Reply-To: hankb@teklds.UUCP (Hank Buurman)
Organization: Tektronix, Inc., Beaverton, OR.
Lines: 105
Keywords: Part 2
Xref: lsuc net.sf-lovers:6065 net.women:4326


                 (summary continued)

**Is this (female gay/bisexuality in sf/fantasy) merely a reflection
  of todays "Bisexual Chic"?**

barb@oliveb
"Yep.  (The pendulum swings to an extreme before its influence can be
felt in the middle.)"

Mary_Couse.osbunorth@caip
"Not merely, though I think that may be a large part of the picture.
I will say that a lot of men seem to find bi-sexual activity on the part
of women rather stimulating - open any issue of Penthouse if you doubt
this."

davidl@teklds
"Perhaps.  Also, many men are turned on by lesbians, paradoxical as that may
seem.  Even Playboy (the most conservative of America's skin-pix mags) has had 
somewhat explicit pictures of lesbian sex."

ellen@reed
"Good grief.  I certainly hope not.  It is unfortunate that many
lesbians now coming out are accused of succumbing to "bisexual
chic," but I think it is more a reflection of increased
awareness of bisexuality on the part of authors and audiences,
not necessarily increased popularity."

kay@warwick
"Possibly. I hear people say that they consider bisexuality to be "trendy", to
be a "soft option" (for gay people who don't want to come out as gay), but I'm
not sure how much those statements reflect the existence of a real "bisexual
chic", as opposed to those people's apprehensions about bisexuality."

li@uw-vlsi
  "I think that, at this moment, people are just discovering that
side of sexuality and all the following developments that go with
them.  I think that it may be a trend, as in trendy, but I think that it
will slow up eventually; but at the moment authors are exploring the
possibilities."

**Can a female protaganist be physically/mentally superior to men
  without being bi/gay?**

quint@caip
  "I imagine it is possible. I dont usually notice the sexuality of the
protagonist unless I am looking for it... I dont worry about those things.
Some authors seem to slap you in the face with it... Elizabeth Lynn for
example... her collection "The Woman Who Loved The Moon" was the first book
I ever really noticed that the protagonist was bi/gay, and I remember
wondering "why should it make a difference?" The fact is, it doesnt if it
isnt made obvious... I never batted an eye when Lythande (from Thieves'
World) wandered off with a girl.
     I think part of the cause of this is that many of the obvious role
models for female protagonists in modern society have been bi/gay...
especially in the literary fields. The 'strong' women definitely have
female lovers, whether or not that is their primary orientation. (from what
I have heard about men in the publishing/literary fields, it is probably
because they cant find anyone decent.)"

kay@warwick
"In my opinion, certainly!  To me, the question (and I'm not getting at you
here) is about as meaningful as `Can a female protagonist be ... superior to
men without having blue eyes?'"

ellen@reed
"It's difficult, I think.  However, it can be done; witness C.L.
Moore's Jirel of Joiry stories, Gilman's Herland novels, Anne
McCaffrey's Killashandra and Helva, and some of the Zelazny
heroines.  I think it's much harder to write heterosexual strong
women at this point in time, since so much of sexuality relates
to a conquest metaphor."

chk@purdue
"Yes.  However, I think that certain authors do not know this.  As a side
note, it may also be that editors/copyreaders/whoever think that strong,
straight women would not be accepted by the readers (that's us, gang).  If
so, this would put a lot of pressure on writers to make their heroines
bi/gay/androgynous."

Mary_Couse.osbunorth@caip
 "I certainly hope so!!  Look at "Clan of the Cave Bear" and "Valley
of the Horses" for a wonderfully strong, straight female character.
There may be a few other problems with these books, but the main female
character is strongly drawn and quite straight."

davidl@teklds
"Of course (in my opinion).  Example: Mary Lou Retton manages to be an athletic
superstar and a symbol of down-home femininity.  However, the question is 
weighted.  The phrase "superior to men" implies that ALL men are inferior to 
this protagonist.  A woman who considers herself "superior to (all) men" would 
be very likely to become bi/gay, or at least misanthropic."

flory@zaphod
"This is obviously a flawed generality but widely held nevertheless."

                            Continued


	Hank Buurman  Tektronix Inc.  ihnp4!tektronix!tekla!hankb
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