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From: laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton)
Newsgroups: net.women,net.singles
Subject: Re: career vs. relationships
Message-ID: <521@hoptoad.uucp>
Date: Fri, 14-Feb-86 03:44:17 EST
Article-I.D.: hoptoad.521
Posted: Fri Feb 14 03:44:17 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 15-Feb-86 04:49:46 EST
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco
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Xref: watmath net.women:8986 net.singles:10272

In article <617@ism780c.UUCP> dianeh@ism780c.UUCP (Diane Holt) writes:
>Are you trying to imply that, since you feel
>it's an accurate preconceived notion, it is a legitimate prejudice, and
>the paradox lies in that conclusion?

Phrases like ``legitimite prejudice'' kind of dull the meaning of both
words, don't they?  The question is one of reality.  And he is dead-on-the
money -- boys do better than girls at math, men do better than women
at math -- on a statistical basis.  You can find women who do very
well at math, but, statistically speaking, this is rare.  this is a
big topic of discussion for proghfessional educators -- I've waded
through mounds and mounds of discussion on the subject.  Is the reason
for this due to differences between the male and female brain?  is it
due to the fact that mathematical ability is encouraged by playing with
blocks and legos and girls don't get enough of these as children? Is
it that girls mature and get interested in boys earlier than boys do and
then stop competing with boys in the classroom because it is perceived to be
unfeminine?  Because math classes are boring in general, but boys are more
programmed to stick it out than girls are through their conditioning?

I have read study after study, and I have no idea whether there is any
truth in any of them.  But to dismiss it as a prejudice is to ignore that
it is going on, as if it is the fault of the math teachers (most of
whom are overjoyed to get an enthusiastic student, of whatever sex.)

>You don't *think* it interferes, but how can you be sure?  Do you think
>there's a possibility that *your* initial lack of enthusiasm toward your
>female students might be projected and, therefore, their level of enthusiasm
>towards your class might initially be diminished?  I find it very
>difficult to believe that if you set yourself up with the notion,
>"Here's the new crop of students -- chances are the girls won't really care
>too much." that it's not going to have an effect on how you approach them.

Holy smokes, by the time you get to university you had better be immune to
``I care more about what the teacher thinks about me than about the 
subject itself'' disease.  Especially in mathematics classes.  Remember,
what he is looking for is people who are so enthusiastic about their
subject that they don't care if the teacher is a walrus.   it is this
type of student which he finds is almost never female -- and this type
of student doesn't care what the teacher's opinion of them is, if they
ever notice it.

>Well, your friend may have overreacted somewhat, and refusing to discuss the
>issue with you certainly won't help matters, but I can understand her
>reaction. How can you say, "I know it sounds prejudiced, but my experience
>has shown me that females are less enthusiastic than males when it comes to
>my math courses," and not expect her to be upset by that? It *is*
>prejudiced, and I can't think of any situation where prejudice can be a
>positive thing, so what can you possibly expect to accomplish by hanging on
>to it? Even if you feel you *have* come up with some experience-based
>insight into the probability of the enthusiasm level of males vs. females,
>what does it actually accomplish for you? Especially given that you say you
>don't let it influence the approach you take towards them individually.

It is an accurate representation of reality -- what is.  It is better to
walk around with concepts which mirror the world that is rather than
the world you would like to live in.  Is he expected to choose the things
he believes in on the basis of what it accomplishes for you -- or on the
basis of what is true?  
-- 
Laura Creighton		
ihnp4!hoptoad!laura 
laura@lll-crg.arpa