Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 exptools; site ihu1h.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ihnp4!ihu1h!jailbird From: jailbird@ihu1h.UUCP (Ronald D. Harvey) Newsgroups: net.singles Subject: Re: Truth is stranger than doctrine Message-ID: <766@ihu1h.UUCP> Date: Thu, 20-Feb-86 17:12:36 EST Article-I.D.: ihu1h.766 Posted: Thu Feb 20 17:12:36 1986 Date-Received: Fri, 21-Feb-86 05:28:21 EST References: <167@axiom.UUCP> Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories Lines: 80 > > " Of course no means NO, you silly twit!!!" > > Well, not always. The following is a real, unexpurgated, factual, > bonafide, cross my heart and hope to die incedent from my not too > recent past.... > MUCH DELETED, BUT YOU CAN READ IT YOURSELVES! > > Mark " Oh hell, just add a capacitor. " Ramberg > @ Axiom Technology " Home of the AT100 " I am a relatively new person to the net, but I have been reading the discussions about harrassment with some interest, amusement, and concern. Maybe I can't add anything significant, but... here goes. I think that many people (I like the word "people" as opposed to "men," "women," etc.) have had similar experiences to Mark's "You should have tried harder" encounter; I know that I have. However, before either sex uses this as an excuse for: 1) justification for being "confused" as to just what people want, or 2) pointing an accusing finger and crying out "foul! That is just what the problem is!," there are a couple of issues that- as Rod Serling would say- I submit for your approval. Firstly, harrassment is defined on two levels: the individual and the state (i.e. law). The latter is clearly defined, the former is not. Part of the problem is, then, the dissonance between my definition of harrassment any someone else's. OF COURSE, we all KNOW that, but it takes COMMUNICATION for anyone ELSE to KNOW that too. I have found that the most reliable form of communication verbal- NOT (and I shudder as I type this) body language. In Mark's case, she said what she said because of possibly many factors. For example, being put on the spot, a standard "line" for dealing with such questions, or because she actually meant it. Politeness dictates that one should respect another person's answer and leave it at that. Hats off to you, Mark- you did the right thing (in my view, that is). Now, I do not think that Mark had crossed that all-important and dangerous line between aggression and harrassment, but that was for HER to decide, not me or even Mark. However, her dumping of the drink (by the way, what was it? Maybe it just didn't taste very good...) in Mark's lap is, in my opinion, a CLEAR example of harrassment, albeit relatively harmless. I am sure that Mark has the personal integrety to laugh off such an incident without condemming all of women/single/pub/being-friendly/ I'll-never-do-that-again-ever/- hood. Enough! Enough! Secondly, we as persons MUST address the issues that: 1) Yes, there are people out there who think of the opposite sex as sexual objects, 2) Yes, there are people who are militant in stamping out the often violent and demeaning effects of #1, 3) No, not all people are like #1 (I personally think that "all" should be "most"), and, finally, 4) Things *are* changing, for the better. If we can rid our society of this long-standing trait (some would say "tradition," "preference," "alternate lifestyle," ad nauseum), we can move on to bigger and better things. I am personally looking forward to this. This is a prejudice that is one of societies' most WASTEFUL. I believe that awareness of the general mood coupled with RESPECT FOR THE INDIVIDUAL BASED ON CLEAR, HONEST, HUMAN COMMUNICATION is our best bet. Right now do you, my ever patient readers, think I am a man or a woman or can't tell? WHY? In conclusion, I can sympathize with the experience Mark had. Clearly, he was the beneficiary of the incident. Not only did he avoid meating (OOOH! Freudian slip!) someone who may have been a real drag, but he got a free drink too! Not a lesson to be under- rated! Plough on, Mark! "Do what you say Say what you mean One thing leads to another" - The Fixx So be it, Ron (Ronald, not Rhonda) PS. Personally, I think that people have to play catch-up with the Women's Movement. Will there ever be a Men's Movement? Jock burning? Hmmm... (I hope there is a sense of humor out there!)