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From: ross@ulowell.UUCP (Ross)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: Re: Re: Titles
Message-ID: <214@ulowell.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 24-Feb-86 17:06:11 EST
Article-I.D.: ulowell.214
Posted: Mon Feb 24 17:06:11 1986
Date-Received: Wed, 26-Feb-86 08:15:22 EST
References: <4514@kestrel.ARPA> <3407@nsc.UUCP> <276@sdcc7.UUCP> <499@tekig5.UUCP>
Organization: University of Lowell
Lines: 85

> > > A random hacker grade programmer of high school age is worth 5 brand new
> > > CS degree-oids.
> > > Note that ALL the awesomely hot programmers I know do not have degrees.
> > > 	curt
> 
> >    Maybe if you
> >    understood more about computers you would know what a "hot"
> >    programmer really is.  Come on, a high school programmer? 
> >    You can't tell me some kid playing at home with his Apple knows
> >    more about computers than someone with a degree. Being able to
> >    program a video game does not make a Computer Scientist.
> > 				   harry,
> > 				   A pissed off college student.
>    Sorry, Harry, I have to agree with Curt.  If the kid is like my son,
>    who has just started High School.  He spent part of his 8th grade
>    year teaching his programming teacher some new tricks. - he tricked
>    his teacher and then told him later about what he had done.-  The
>    school even gave him a certificate for his achievements.  He had been
>    helping the other kids in class.
>    You have to understand though...   He has been into comuters for over
>    5 years.  No, he doesn't program in C yet, but he does work with 
>    machine code, as well as basic.
>    
>    No, he could not come close to the level of a Professor who has been
>    teaching for several years, but just wait 'til he finishes high school...

	Ok great and powerful gurus of the real world let me tell you 
some of my observations about high school wizards since I was one, and
graduated with quite a few.  I watched one individual, who could make an
Apple ][+ jump through a hoop become a computer salesman at a local
computer shop, and then go on to be a very, low on the totem, pole sysop;
"Damn, time to feed it another tape."  Another individual began attending
this university one year after myself; he was one class behind my own.
He also was capable of amazing the computer teachers and was extremely
adept with dealing with the Apple's disk drives.  The first time I showed
him a Vax running VMS, he began reading through virtual memory attempting
to deciper it into something useful.  
	While both of these individuals did have computer classes, I did
not.  I knew the teachers were incompetent and avoided them as such.
This brings me to my first point.  High school computer teachers are for
the most part not at the level of computer literacy that they must be
at in order to funnel this raw talent into any usable form.  Therefore,
the statement that a student tricked a teacher is not as impressive as
it seems.  Remember also that as we go into the younger ages the
computer literacy of the teachers will fall even lower.  The solution
to this problem is to take these students and teach them something else
besides how a computer can add 10 and 10.  Problem: try telling Mrs.
Jones that her son is not as smart as Mrs. Smith's and can't take
the same computer class.  The teachers will stay incompetent for a 
while.
	My second point is that though a high school programmer may
have lots of raw talent, it must be formed into something useable.
This can happen two ways.  The programmer can be hired by a company
and trained.  This method will take a long time because, while his
work is always useful, he does not understand the underlying concepts
behind his code on any level other than intuitive.  It will take time
but eventually this person will learn one his own what is necessary
to code as well as anyone with a degree, but I stress again that it 
will take time.  The second solution is for this person to get the
money together and get into a decent four year program; anything less
is a waste of time.  If the program is quality then he will be allowed
to grow and his energy will be channeled and used by himself and others
that need it during this period.  When he leaves not only will he
understand the concepts behind his code, but he is now to the point
where he could start thinking about inventing a few of his own.  

	The energy to solve problems is present in most people, but
at varying levels.  The energy to solve problems with a computer
is present in few people, but at varying levels.  This energy must
brought under control for it to be useful, the means by which we
do that will be argued for a very long time.


						Ross Miller

Disclaimer:
I make computers do useful things, if you don't like the way I write then
don't read what I write.
The above opinions and ideas are my own and do not express the opinions
or ideas of anyone else alive, dead, or electronic.
     

hmmm, I really should think of some words of wisdom to put here.

...wanginst!ulowell!ross