Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site globetek.UUCP Path: utzoo!utcs!mnetor!globetek!chris From: chris@globetek.UUCP (chris) Newsgroups: net.women,net.singles Subject: Re: Re: Re: Beach harassment Message-ID: <230@globetek.UUCP> Date: Wed, 19-Feb-86 14:06:27 EST Article-I.D.: globetek.230 Posted: Wed Feb 19 14:06:27 1986 Date-Received: Wed, 26-Feb-86 18:47:49 EST References: <519@hoptoad.uucp> Reply-To: chris@andor.UUCP (chris) Organization: Globetek Ltd., Toronto Lines: 70 Summary: In article <519@hoptoad.uucp> laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton) writes: >In article <977@whuxl.UUCP> stu16@whuxl.UUCP (Pippin) writes: >> Methinks you have completely missed the point. >> >> My interpretation: A person you absolutely can't >>stand makes a suggestive remark - that's harrassment >> >> If a person you get along with quite well makes the >>same remark - that's humorous. (Attitude also depends on the >>harassee - how she takes the remark). >>-- >> Pippin Stuart >> whuxl!stu16 > >No, I got the point the first time. I just think that the sort of >non-objective thinking that produces concepts such as ``harrassment >is in the eyes of the harassee'' is cruel. If you actually >go around thinking this way, then I suggest you change your way of >thinking, and as fast as you can, because you are probably being >extremely hard on the people around you in your life. They are in >the unenviable position of having to read your mind before they can >determine whether their efforts are going to be considered humourous >or harrassment. > >This is one heavy load to expect half the human race to carry. [The rest of Laura's article goes on to say a lot of good and sensible and kind things about not getting discouraged by rejections and that women should approach men too, and ... oh hell, read it.] Laura, I've just GOT to take issue with you on this one. If we all knew in advance how other people would take our remarks, the world would be a wonderful place indeed. It would also be quite unbelievable, alas. Life is just FULL of context-sensitive things, and what we say to people is one of them. Harassment in many cases *IS* in the eyes of the harassee, because there simply *IS* no way we can tell in advance what a stranger is thinking or feeling with complete accuracy. Suppose I ask a man on the street quite politely if he is interested in reading this wonderful leaflet I'd like to give him. Am I harassing him? From my point of view, of course not. From many people's point of view, probably not. From his point of view? How can I tell? If it's been a good day for him, he probably says "no thanks" and think no more about it. If 17 people have tried to hand him leaflets in the last 3 blocks, he probably thinks something along the lines of "ANOTHER *&^$%!@+ harassing me!". From his point of view, I have harassed him. (Now, as to whether it's *reasonable* or not for him to feel harassed by by me is another question entirely, and I don't intend to go into that here.) On the other hand, there are some things which will practically ALWAYS be considered harassment -- like following someone around and yelling obscenities at them. The point I'm trying to make is that we often just can't know how another person will react to something we say. There are no SURE guidelines, not even common sense and common courtesy. "Common" does NOT mean "universal". All you can do is try to be considerate, and take "no" for an answer if that's what you get (I couldn't agree with you more here, Laura). If you approach a stranger in what YOU think is a polite and non-threatening manner, and they act like you're trying to rape/murder/whatever them, then from YOUR point of view that's their problem. However, if most of your approaches to strangers meet this kind of reaction, then it's probably time to re-think your view of what's "polite" and "non-threatening". -- Christine Robertson {linus, ihnp4, decvax}!utzoo!globetek!chris Money may not buy happiness, but misery in luxury has its compensations...