Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site burl.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!bellcore!ulysses!burl!rcj From: rcj@burl.UUCP (Curtis Jackson) Newsgroups: net.women,net.singles Subject: Re: beach harassment, extended Message-ID: <1052@burl.UUCP> Date: Mon, 24-Feb-86 18:00:13 EST Article-I.D.: burl.1052 Posted: Mon Feb 24 18:00:13 1986 Date-Received: Wed, 26-Feb-86 20:31:25 EST References: <177@ttidcc.UUCP> <546@hoptoad.uucp> Reply-To: rcj@burl.UUCP (Curtis Jackson) Organization: AT&T Technologies, Burlington NC Lines: 88 Xref: linus net.women:8894 net.singles:9414 Summary: In article <546@hoptoad.uucp> laura@hoptoad.uucp (Laura Creighton) writes: >In article <177@ttidcc.UUCP> regard@ttidcc.UUCP (Adrienne Regard) writes: >>I like to dance, and I used to go out to bars to do just that. I've never >>once received a less-than-negative response to, "I'd like to dance with >>other people tonight" when some guy, after a dance or two, plunks himself >>down at "my" table and proceeds to try to discover my lifestory for the >>next 3 hours at mega-decibels (his presence effectively discouraging any >>other people from approaching the table) > >Yes, you do meet people like this. You have to up the level of rejection >for some people to astronomical limits before they get the message. But >this is no reason to *start* at astronomical limits. Agreed, but it is hard for me to imagine that you [Adrienne] "never once" received a less-than-negative response to that. Come down South, I'll dance with you and (if I feel like it) *ASK* you if I may join you at your table, or if you would like to join me at mine. Besides, with the kind of modern attitude you express here, if you let me join you you won't *expect* me to buy all the drinks. ;-) >>I even had a T-shirt printed up that reads, "I go home alone" as a subtle >>indicator that I'm at a bar with a dance floor in order to dance. > >Hmm. In Toronto that would almost universally be taken as a challenge. Yep -- here, too. >>BUT, I >>have found that "direct expression" of my interest (or lack of interest) >>hasn't ever won me any points. (In many cases, it's easier on MY ego to >>be "indirect", and let the guy go away puzzled, rather than mad.) I ALSO >>initiate contact, and I ALSO take rejection. If I had initiated contact, I >>accept rejection as a possibility. When I don't initiate the contact, I >>resent being blamed for somebody else's weak ego. > >I don't think that it is a matter of ``weak ego''. There are tactful >rejections, and rejections which make you feel like something the cat >dragged in. Just because somebody elseinitiated the contact with you >doesn't mean that he should be prepared to take anything from you -- as >a simple matter of fact he *can't* think of everything. You shouldn't >have to spend 3 hours (or 20 minutes) letting him down gently, but a >little consideration doesn't hurt. After all, while you are there to >dance first, and meet people second (if at all) he may be there to meet >people first, and dance second. I see your point Laura, and definitely agree that tact is in order at least at the start until there is reason to be otherwise. I have to agree with Adrienne, though, that it is VERY often weak ego instead. BTW, congrats to Adrienne for initiating contact -- it is most welcomed from this quarter! >>And DON'T tell me I initiated contact by being at the bar. So did "he". >>Or was he just there for a drink, and I was there to put down men? As >A man approaches a woman, and they have a few minutes pleasant conversation. >But suddenly I get the impression that she panics. What if I can't get >rid of him when I want to? Panic, panic, panic -- then crushing >rejection. This leaves one stunned and bewildered guy. This particular >pattern of bahaviour is flawed on more than one front. First of all, it >hurts someone unneceesarily, and second of all it teaches men to expect >crushing rejections. As they toughen up to be strong enough to take this >kind of stuff, they can end up so insensitive that they are totally >oblivious to kinder rejections. And women who run across them learn that >(some) men are very hard to get rid of, and so while involved in pleasant >conversation with a man may panic, because they are unsure that they can >get rid of him when they want to.... > >around and around and around it goes. clearly everyone would be better >off if they knew how to give and how to get a rejection without becoming >an insensitive jerk. If somewhere along the line men and women learned >not to be afraid of each other this would be a great thing as well. Bravo! I've been in the exact scenario described above by Laura many times. What you (i.e., I) have to do is realize what has just happened and blow it off -- otherwise you can feel the insensitivity Laura mentioned growing insidiously... -- The MAD Programmer -- 919-228-3313 (Cornet 291) alias: Curtis Jackson ...![ ihnp4 ulysses cbosgd mgnetp ]!burl!rcj ...![ ihnp4 cbosgd akgua masscomp ]!clyde!rcj