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From: stimac@tymix.UUCP (Michael Stimac)
Newsgroups: net.singles
Subject: men miss the obvious?
Message-ID: <673@tymix.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 27-Feb-86 19:41:13 EST
Article-I.D.: tymix.673
Posted: Thu Feb 27 19:41:13 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 1-Mar-86 17:54:43 EST
Organization: Tymnet Inc., Cupertino CA
Lines: 69

>	In the above mentioned article the author observes that men seem to
>be "dense" about noticing when a woman is interested in them.  This seems to
>me to be part of a more general phenomenon -- men just don't seem to notice
>what is going on emotionally in the people around them anywhere near as quickly
>as women.  An example:
>
>	I play role-playing/polictical/wargames with a group of people ( four 
>men and six women ), all of whom fall into the 25 - 35 age group, and are 
>single.  For some time now two of them have been seeing eachother fairly 
>seriously (they are discussing marriage), but haven't explicitly said so to 
>the rest of the group.  Every woman in the group, with the possible exception
>of one who has only been around for about a month and a half, have become aware
>of the relationship to some degree without being explicitly told.  On the other
>hand, I don't think any of the men (except for the one involved, of course) 
>have a clue.
>
>	All of the men in question are well educated and generally considered
>to be of at least above average intelligence.  I find myself at a loss to 
>understand how they can miss something going on in front of their noses this
>way.  Do people think this is something cultural, or have I just managed to 
>find a group of people who all happen to share the same blind spot?
>
>>					Kathrys Smith

I found this posting to be quite interesting. As a man, I'd like to offer
a response to the implicit question in the last paragraph.  Kathrys seems
to assume that the men are not aware of what is going on. Apparently, the
women have mentioned noticing the new relationsip among themselves (since
Kathryn knows that all the women, save one, know about it), but none of
the women have talked about this relationship in the presence of any of
the men (or they *would* know about it).  Apparently, it is not discussed
while the group is together, or the men would know about it, perforce.

My experience is not that men do not notice these things, but rather
that they do not talk about them. I am perfectly willing to believe that
some, if not all, of the men in Kathrys's group DO notice what going on,
and simply feel no need to mention what they observe.. They may even
consider it so obvious that there is no need to talk about it. 

Social politeness forbids talking about it, the men and women agree
(no discussion of it in the group itself). Difference is, men carry
the discussion prohibition into the private arena as well. Kathrys,
why don't you ask one of the men, privately, if he has noticed what
is going on? I'd be interested in knowing, too.

The above is a suggestion, of course. Based on my own degree of
emtional/psychological insight, I would say that much of the time
men DO notice, but do not feel moved to make an explicit comment.
As an example, I was friends for several years with a couple. After
about two years I noticed that the woman was changing. I said to
myself, "Paul is not going accept the new Margo". About one year
later, Paul announced he was moving out, and they were subsequently
divorced. Margo was astonished when I told her I had seen it coming;
she hadn't seen it herself.

Question: in the case above, for example, ought I to have said anything
to anybody regarding my vision of their future? If so, why? If not,
why not? ( my personal philosophy is heavily in the direction of
non-interference).

Other questions: Do men on the net feel it is "bad form" to discuss
incipient relationships (other than their own?). Do women on the
net feel it is "bad form" to discuss incipient relationships?
Do you talk about every thing you notice about other people by
way of insight? Do you feel the absence of discussion indicates
the degree of importance men or women attach to relationships?

Michael Stimac
...hplabs!oliveb!tymix!stimac