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From: cheryl@batcomputer.TN.CORNELL.EDU (cheryl)
Newsgroups: net.women,net.singles
Subject: Re: Prejudice in graduate school
Message-ID: <326@batcomputer.TN.CORNELL.EDU>
Date: Tue, 4-Mar-86 13:51:17 EST
Article-I.D.: batcompu.326
Posted: Tue Mar  4 13:51:17 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 7-Mar-86 07:09:33 EST
References: <125@ttidcc.UUCP> <215@batcomputer.TN.CORNELL.EDU>
Reply-To: cheryl@batcomputer.UUCP ()
Organization: Theory Center, Cornell University, Ithaca NY
Lines: 67
Xref: watmath net.women:9552 net.singles:10713

In article <1220@oddjob.UUCP> apak@oddjob.UUCP (Adrian Kent) writes:
>In article <64@randvax.UUCP> karen@rand-unix.UUCP (Karen Isaacson) writes:
>>In article <684@rti-sel.UUCP> wfi@rti-sel.UUCP (William Ingogly) writes:
>>>In article <251@batcomputer.TN.CORNELL.EDU> cheryl@batcomputer.UUCP () writes:
>>>>      No it is not.  I've seen male graduate students say
>>>>      of a fellow female graduate student, "she should be
>>>>      having kids by now."

>>>Jeez, Cheryl, I've been in graduate school in two disciplines
>>>(environmental sciences and computer science) and I've NEVER heard a
>>>male grad student say anything like that of a female student. 

	Physics, Geophysics, Mathematics & Engineering are 
	traditional and traditionally male-dominated 
	fields.  ES and CS are not.  
	
>>Well, when I was in graduate school a couple of the guys decided I must be
>>sleeping with the TA, my grades were so high!  (God forbid I might have
>>been doing the homework & learning the material better than they...)
>>And no one shouted them down when they spread the rumor, either.
>>Perhaps they thought it was funny???   Actually, these guys were quite
>>mature and if I were paranoid, I might think they did this deliberately.

	And I'm sure that the more vociferously you had to object
	to their bullshit, the more you were labelled as a
	troublemaker, the more it called attention to their comments
	(putting you in an even more defensive frame of mind),
	the more it detracted from your enjoyment of your work
	(the only good reason for being in grad school anyway),
	etc. etc.  Don't forgive them, because they know
	god-damned well what they're doing.  Turn it around ON
	them, and accuse them of having HOMOSEXUAL relations 
	with the TA if the TA is male.  Jokingly, of course.
	Ha, Ha.  Behind their backs of course.  Ha, Ha.

>     I've seen the phenomenenon Karen and Cheryl describe so often I'd almost
>say it's the norm. There's a world-famous theoretical physicist (you've 
>probably heard of him) who won't take women in his group because he believes
>they shouldn't do physics. I know others who say they find women 'distracting'
>in an academic environment, talk about their female students purely in terms
>their appearance, or simply refuse to take women in the subject seriously.

>I've seen a thoroughly competent woman physicist teased and ridiculed by men
>who didn't think she 'fitted in' and didn't want her to stay in the subject.
>Another man talked about a colleague's "personality, if women have a
>personality". In other subjects, several of my women friends have had great
>difficulty being taken seriously by their (mostly male) departments. They are
>typically brighter and more determined than their colleagues, who don't like
>this. And the strategy works: two or three of my friends are concluding that
>the game may not be worth the candle, and considering abandoning their
>subjects. 

	And then the b**stards throw up their hands and say,

		"we can't hire any female faculty members
		 because so few women get their PhD's in this field"

>     Don't *necessarily* dismiss (your or others') suspicions as paranoia.
>In my experience, men are more prone to use this sort of tactic behind
>womens' backs than directly. 

>     NOTE: none of the situations above were at the University of Chicago.

	The situation I described took place at the University of Chicago
	in the Department of Geophysical Sciences.  

>					 Adrian Kent