Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!decwrl!glacier!oliveb!felix!peregrine!mike From: mike@peregrine.UUCP (Mike Wexler) Newsgroups: net.space,net.columbia Subject: Re: Scuttle the Space Program? Message-ID: <248@peregrine.UUCP> Date: Mon, 17-Feb-86 18:22:29 EST Article-I.D.: peregrin.248 Posted: Mon Feb 17 18:22:29 1986 Date-Received: Wed, 19-Feb-86 07:26:04 EST References: <661@tekigm.UUCP> <158@axiom.UUCP> <932@nmtvax.UUCP> Reply-To: mike@peregrine.UUCP (Mike Wexler) Followup-To: net.philosophy Organization: Peregrine Systems, Irvine, Ca Lines: 115 Xref: linus net.space:4405 net.columbia:1978 In article <932@nmtvax.UUCP> fine@nmtvax.UUCP (Andrew J Fine) writes: >Let's ask ourselves a few questions: > >****************************************************************************** >Does humanity (men and women) really *need* to populate space? Do we really >need to explore, in person or otherwise, other planets? Historically, Depends on what you mean by need. Do people need cars? Do people in warm climates need homes? Also do people need to grow and learn new things. Would you be satisfied if you where locked in a 3 meter by 3 meter by 3 meter room and supplied with food, water, and warmth? >exploration and open boundaries only encouraged exploitation, slavery, and >genocide of indigenous peoples such as African, American Natives, and >East Asians. It widened the gap between the rich and the poor at home, and Exploitation, slavery, and genocide exist even where there is no exploration. Who are we going to genocide in space anyway? The people driving the UFOs? >the massive funds spent on ships and weapons in that previous era caused >more people to starve. It also increased the likelyhood of the lawless being >able to escape justice, for example Botany Bay and the HMS Bounty. People have also been fed through exploration. There are many people that are now feed by foods grown in the Midwestern portion of the United States. Do you think that it shouldn't have been explored? > >So what do we buy with $2 billion dollars? One shuttle, good for 100 missions >(best case) with 7 people each. Or enough food, clean water, and other >necesssities to feed Ethiopia for the next ten decades, easily. Can you justify this claim? > >So what do space-faring nations prove when they invoke national prestige and >the desire of humanity to expand, by consuming all that money and >men-centuries? "I'm rich enough to do this and you're not, so there!". >"My rocket is bigger than yours!". "We are leaving you behind to scratch the >dust while we inherit the universe!" One man's glory is another man's >humiliation. One man's wealth is another man's poverty. One man's livelihood >is another man's serfdom. > >Why have satellites and information systems at all, except to invade the >privacy and keep records on a captive populace? Why have land and weather >satellites at all, except to take advantage of another nation's resources >and vulnerabilities? How about to allow communication between people(Comsat), to make better use of our own resources(landsat), or to save lives(navigation satellites). > >Why explore the planets, interesting though they are, except to find >more virgin landscape to despoil and riches to plunder? Why put a man, or a >women for that matter, in space? What is so special about anyone that we >must exhalt that person above all others in such an eletist fashion? Why >shouldn't that person be put to a task that serves the world rather than that >person's ego? You are assuming that space exploration doesn't serve the world. This in not necessarily true. We can use it to create solar power more efficiently and not despoil virgin(or even non-virgin) territory. What better way can someone serve humanity than to find ways to supply the resources people want, without destroying nature in the process. > >The main problem with all of us is we are still essentially barbarians at >heart. The Viking who was the explorer was also the Viking that also raped >and pillaged. The Columbus who was the explorer was also the Columbus who >converted people to his religion by force. The shuttle pilot who was the >explorer was also the pilot who killed husbands, wives, and children in >North Korea and North Vietnam. The wanderlust we all experience is just >another word for the lust and coveting for the outside world that blinds >us to the potentials of the inside world and the darkness of the soul that >we need to correct. Do we really deserve to go "out there" when we have >such a mess "down here"? Yes we do deserve to go "out there" and it may even help us clean up our mess down here. I have never killed anyone, nor do I plan to ever do so. I would love to be a pilot for the Shuttle or whatever replaces it in the future. How many of the pilots of the shuttle or other rockets have been involved in wars? (I don't know the answer to this, they may all have been as far as I know.) > >Earth is enough for us, if we have the will to cooperate, to transcend the >bigotries that confound us, the borders that seperate us, to dare to have >peace instead of waging war, to share what we have as far as we can give it >without anyone having to pay for it ( the concept of having to work for one's >bread is deadly when there is not enough work to go around ), to recognize >that the most humble peasant in Mexico or India is worth more to us than >the President of the US or the Queen of England. Even if Earth is enough for us, why not have/create more. Space will provide more jobs so that people can work for there bread. Why is a humble peasant worth MORE than the President of the US or the Queen of England. How do you determine who is worth most? (Are you saying poor people without power are worth more than rich people with power?) > >If humanity can simply change from mere descendants of carnivorous apes to >something totally gentle, altrustic, and noble, then Earth will be enough. >We only try to escape the Earth because we try to escape our own natures. See above. >***************************************************************************** > >I, personally, am in full support of the Shuttle, the Space Program, and >the exploration and exploition of space, and it's eventual population by >humanity. BUT NOBODY HAS EVER ASKED US THESE QUESTIONS, NOBODY HAS EVER >CHALLENGED US TO QUESTION OURSELVES! We need to be able to answer them, >especially if those who have not, question the motives of us, those who have. These question have been asked many times. They are though over every time congress sets up a budget for NASA and have been talked about many places, for instance Arthur Clarke(I don't remember the title of the book). > >Somehow, net.space would benefit from a really in-depth discussion of our >justifications of our actions in space and thier consequences. > This seems to be a very philosophical debat. I AM REDIRECTING FOLLOWUPS to net.philosophy. >Andrew Jonathan Fine. -- Mike Wexler (trwrb|scgvaxd)!felix!peregrine!mike (714)855-3923 All of the preceding opinions are solely those of the author and do not represent the views of any other being, sentient or abstract.