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From: fpt@wgivax.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.unix-wizards
Subject: Experiences with SUN
Message-ID: <147@wgivax.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 18-Feb-86 15:48:36 EST
Article-I.D.: wgivax.147
Posted: Tue Feb 18 15:48:36 1986
Date-Received: Wed, 19-Feb-86 23:45:58 EST
Lines: 101

Since SUN has become almost a household word in the UNIX community,
I thought I would tell the net about our recent (somewhat rough)
experiences as a SUN customer.

My hope is that the right people at SUN may see this, and that some
of our questions and problems will be addressed. Certainly, current
and potential customers of SUN deserve to know.

I am forwarding a copy of a memo from one of us. I have added my own
comments in places (in parens).

				MEMO

from:  Don Mosley					          2-17-86
       Washburn Direct Marketing

to:    Concerned parties

subject:  Sun Microsystems

	This memo is an effort to vent some of the frustrations accumulated
in the acquisition of a Sun3/180.  Some of the problems described here have
been fixed, most are still pending resolution.

1.  Delivery
	System ordered 10-5-85, partially delivered 2-12-86.  Somewhat
	understandable;  Sun was moving to a bigger plant.  The irritating 
	part is that delivery was promised on 1-24, 1-31, 2-5, 2-10.

	(Actually, the first promised delivery was '30 days', approx. 11-5)
	
2.  Incomplete
	System was ordered with 16 line ALM and color monitor.  Monitor is
	promised to ship 2-28.  No one knows when the ALM will ship.  The
	portion that did arrive is missing the software installation manual.
	The Ethernet transceiver kit was missing the screws to hold cable tap
	into transceiver body.  CPU carton did not have a packing list.

	(ALM is a 16 port asynch. mux. The most aggravating thing to me was
	that it was not until we got the box, looked inside, 'hey, where's
	the mux?', that sun told us 'available in limited quantities 
	starting in April'. We bought the machine to use. We needed it in
	the promised thirty days. Now we find out we can't put serially
	connected users on it until April?)

3.  Lack of Communication
	We attempted to purchase a GCR 1/2 inch tape controller for the Sun3.
	It took 4 weeks for the salesman to give us a part number and price 
	for the parts. Order was placed 1-28.  We found out on 2-10 that the
	tape controller was not available from Sun as a spare part or as a 
	system option.  Sun office in Raleigh states the reason for this as 
	"they can't figure out how to add the part number to their spare parts
	database".  Really inspires confidence in this organization.

	(Anyone know how to get 9 track tape on a Sun 3? Can we buy the
	parts from someone else? We don't need a drive, just controller.)

	The Sun offices in Raleigh and Atlanta have repeatedly failed to return
	my phone calls.  When they do return calls, the answer is frequently
	"I'll look into it and call you right back", which rarely happens.
	Sales related questions to Sun in California are referred to Raleigh.

4.  Overpricing
	The above mentioned tape controller, a Xylogics 472, is reported to
	cost $3,390 from Sun.  The same part from a computer systems retailer
	costs $1,100.  The 380 mb SMD disk subsystem from Sun costs $19,900.
	The same parts, Xylogics 450 controller, Fujitsu Eagle, VME to Multibus
	adapter would cost $10,750 on the open market.

5.  Questionable Engineering Practices
	The above mentioned disk controller is designed to operate 4 SMD drives.
	As supplied by Sun it will run only 2.  The reason for this is that
	Sun takes the industry standard socket connectors on the Xylogics board
	and jumpers them out to D-connectors on the back panel.  This 
	arrangement only has room for 2 drives to connect.
	To go along with this arrangement, each drive will require an adapter 
	panel to convert from the D-connectors back to socket connectors that
	most SMD drives use.  Why not just leave the socket connectors on the
	controller alone?  That would allow the use of 4 drives on one 
	controller and would eliminate a needless link of cabling which is a 
	potential point of failure.

	I feel certain that the Sun3 will be a tremendous system once we get 
it all together.  I would also recommend strongly that we look at other 
vendors before purchasing any more computers from Sun.  Surely no company could
stay in business and treat it's customers as bad as Sun has.

END OF FORWARDED MEMO

It's seldom that one sees bad press on Sun. I'm wondering what you all think.
Are we unique? Is our problem that we only bought 1 instead of 10? Are these
problems only happening in the East? Or in the Atlanta district (includes
Raleigh)?

Any comments will be appreciated.

Fred Toth
Don Mosley
Washburn Graphics, Inc.
Charlotte, NC
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