Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site decwrl.DEC.COM Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!dec-tonto!early From: early@tonto.DEC (the higher we climb, the better the view) Newsgroups: net.consumers Subject: re: (new title now) Bogus Bills from Publishers Message-ID: <1800@decwrl.DEC.COM> Date: Thu, 20-Mar-86 09:47:00 EST Article-I.D.: decwrl.1800 Posted: Thu Mar 20 09:47:00 1986 Date-Received: Sat, 22-Mar-86 06:14:39 EST Sender: daemon@decwrl.DEC.COM Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Lines: 134 Newsgroups: net.consumers Subject: Re: Personal Computing Bill... >> suspect that it was not soneone else's idea to give them my name, but >> that they got my name on a mailing list and decided to send me a bill >> with the hopes that I would unquestioningly pay it. I wrote them a >> post office would not allow me to "refuse" a magazine (though I have I used to have a similar problem with book clubs who send books "automatically", and recently with two very fine, reputable magazines. I learned that if you get a magazine or book which You personally did not request, your liability extends only to notify the publisher you did not order it, and if they want it returned; to send you the postage and costs to you; so that you may return it to them. By so doing you are informing them of your willingness to return it (at their cost), and it was sent without your knowledge or approval. Keep records of this transaction. If the company chooses NOT to send you the cost of returning it to them, your liability has ended. >I find it astonishing that you would accuse Horticulture magazine of >what is essentially criminal activity without any evidence to back it up. To this response; I don't think criminal activity was intended. ABout two years ago I attended a seminar sponsored by my company, and put on by a nationally recognized Technical leader in State_of_the_art RFI/ESD control. Because I attended the seminar, I started recieving a magazine from them for "free". A bout a year later, I got a notice that the magazine would be available ONLY by paid subscription. I threw away the notice. SOmetime later (months) I got a demand notice. I threw that one away. A couple of months later I got a demand notice stating I would be IN COURT with the other deadbeats if I failed to pay within 5 working days. I sent them a letter stating they had my name only because they were a consultant to the corporation. I did NOT order their fine, but otherwise overpriced magazine. They should NOT be harassing me, unless prepared to prove to both the corporate attorney and my attorney (bluff) that I in fact ordered the magazine. I again got a response strongly worded, and signed by their Billing department. I called up the President of that company, explained to his secretary the problem, and why I was angry. I sent them a copy of my previous letter, and added cc: that if not corrected I would send it to my Corp attorney (no bluff), Mass COnsumers Protection, and others within the corporation. I got a very appologetic letter back, explaining that while this Magazine consulting firm was responsible for the magazine content, it was handled by a third party magazine publisher, and an overzealous distribution manager with "new ideas" on building circulation. The letter was not from the president, but by an underling. WOuld I accept a free subscription ? . Would I accept their heartfelt apology ? . Problem resolved. This "method" works for me. ++++ Along these same line I occasionally get an offer for a free magazine. If I don't want the subscription, just write cancel on the bill after getting the first one for free. That's the theory. In practice this is what happened. Briefly: A) Send subscripion to company b) 30 day later bill arrives (no magazine ywt) c) 2-3 weeks later followup bill arrives (please pay). No magazine d) 1-4 weeks later Magazine arrives, maybe 2. e) 10 days (1-10) Final Demand bill arrives. f) Write CANCEL on bill, and submit f) 1-3 weeks another magazien arrives g) Nasty Bill arrives h) Publisher sends newsand price/bill for 2nd +n magazines (you were only entitled to one). Also thinly veiled threat to credit rating is include with bill. i) Send pulisher copy of all transactions, plus name of local Poplice station Fraud Squad and counter Threaten their questionable Billilng activities. j) Receive concilliatory letter from publisher, REQUESTING payment of magazines. k) Send Publisher inflated bill for being a GUinea Pig, and thinly veiled threat to sue for Mail Fraud, and whatever else you can think of. l) Publisher implies a standoff, no further word for 30 days more. m)"Publisher mails an offer for a free magazine. If I don't want the subscription, just write cancel ..... " And business continues, as usual. This too, is a very fine magazine for small businesses. >Horticulture is a reputable publication. Whatever caused them to >bill you initially (could have been some friend playing a joke on you, Many magazine companies have a third party consulting distribution company who makes their money on how many magazines get sold, and are very aggressive. If you are having trouble with a "fine, reputable magazine", tell them about your probelm; not the distribution crumbs. Do you like the magazine ? Is it worth the cost ? Are you unable to handle "one more" subscription ? State the nature of the problem. Your willingenss to RETURN unread copies (the read sample) Send it to the editor (who has a direct line to the owner/manager/president). Be firm, and resolute. Be willing to negotiate, if it is negotiable. Ask for return postage. Be frank. Be willing to keep all copies, and display them to your freinds (if magazine is indded good enough). This won't *always* work, but I havae found it to work in all cases I've done it. But you must keep the dates, copies of letters, and be candid in your approach. bob early (Dec E-Net) TONTO::EARLY) (UUCP) decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!tonto!early |> /=\_ | / \ / \ /\ /| /+\ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \^^^/ \ | \ / \ / \/ / \ | \ / \/ / \ ______/ \ bob early (aka Bob_the_hiker ) (Dec E-Net) TONTO::EARLY) (UUCP) decvax!decwrl!dec-rhea!tonto!early