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From: crm@duke.UUCP (Charlie Martin)
Newsgroups: net.cse
Subject: Re: Degrees, grades...
Message-ID: <6987@duke.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 6-Mar-86 09:04:59 EST
Article-I.D.: duke.6987
Posted: Thu Mar  6 09:04:59 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 8-Mar-86 21:09:24 EST
References: <4514@kestrel.ARPA> <3407@nsc.UUCP> <4588@kestrel.ARPA>
Reply-To: crm@duke.UUCP (Charlie Martin)
Distribution: net
Organization: Duke University
Lines: 58
Summary: 

In article <1376@utai.UUCP> lamy@utai.UUCP (Jean-Francois Lamy) writes:
>In my experience the really good CS students were both bright and innovative.
>Most exceptional students I've met had outside interests -- so much for the
>grade-oriented automata myth.  The automata type students even had
>difficulties finding jobs -- recruiters obviously were able to peek beyond the
>very thin layer of varnish on their personalities.
>
And when we hire people, we usually read the part of the resume that
goes into personal interests, too.  We have to more or less *live* with
these people, and the automata are no fun.

More to the point, the automata usually are not very well self-directed:
they can code anything if you give them a definite spec, but don't get
the urge to go out an get at the problem themselves.  That seems to be
what the "hackers" do well.

>
>Will we ever see Registered Programmers and Registered Analysts (R.P.
>and R.A)? 

Well, I don't really *want* the Gummint involved in this, for various
reasons which resolve to "I just don't trust them."  (I've worked for
them a lot, I have reason not to trust them.)

But a voluntary mechanism of this sort already exists, in the ICCP's
Certificate in Data Processing/Certificate in Computer Programming
program.  The purpose was just what you suggest, i.e. to have a
certification program analogous to CPAs and PEs.  ("Registered
Accountant" is what you folks call a CPA, right?)

The test for CDP can only be taken after five years of professional
experience in data processing, and tests in not just programming, but
things like accounting, management, hardware concepts, and a couple of
other things I don't recall.  It was not an easy test in 1978 and I
understand it is harder now.

I've never taken the CCP test (maybe after I finished this ridiculous
Ph.D.) but I hear it is no small trick, either.  (Peter Denning wrote an
editorial on this while he was president of ACM -- he didn't think it
was trivial.)

W.r.t. CS education: I am all in favor of people getting theoretical
background -- that math background was just what I got most out of when
I came back to University.  But an interesting thing:  almost everything
an accountant learns in an Accounting degree (major courses, I mean)
applies to the CPA exam.  Darn little that is covered in an undergrad
CSP program will show up in CDP or CCP exams.  We just don't cover the
things that people can use at all.

This time, the signature should probably be Charles R. Martin, CDP.




-- 

			Charlie Martin
			(...mcnc!duke!crm)