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From: cs3031bm@unmg.UUCP (    slime face)
Newsgroups: net.cse
Subject: Re: Math and CS
Message-ID: <17@unmg.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 10-Mar-86 03:33:28 EST
Article-I.D.: unmg.17
Posted: Mon Mar 10 03:33:28 1986
Date-Received: Fri, 14-Mar-86 04:13:52 EST
References: <256@hropus.UUCP> <6400005@ccvaxa> <77@umcp-cs.UUCP>
Reply-To: cs3031bm@unmg.UUCP (Mr. Bill)
Organization: Univ. of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 80
Keywords: ice cream, extra terrestrial golf, broccoli jellybeans

In article <> gds@mit-eddie.MIT.EDU (Greg Skinner) writes:
>                  ...I have always wondered why some hackers had
>trouble with calculus.  As far as I could tell, I was using the same
>kind of logic in solving a calculus problem as in a programming
>problem.  However, I knew of some hackers that dropped out of school
>because they couldn't get through calculus, even though they were able
>to sort and hash lists, search trees, etc.
I would consider myself a hacker (I have never started an assignment more
than 3 days before it was due, with the vast majority started the night
before, and about a 95% success rate.) and fortunately math has always
been easy for me.  I think the difference between calculus and all
previous math classes is that calculus is not "obvious."  I never did
any homework in math (well, actually I did 23% of my calculus homework.)
and got 'A's until calculus when I got a 'C'.  I got so used to not having
to work that I stopped working.  I believe this is typical for most hackers.
We believe that we're so smart that some nice person will give us a job
and pay us $$$.  I have seen a few of my friends turn into bums and decided
that wasn't for me.
>Actually, this brings me to a deeper question.  I have always wondered
>why some hackers just didn't grit their teeth and suffer through the N
>years to get their degrees.  Considering the fact that it was easy for
>them to grind out their programs, they could have coasted through all
>their programming projects and devoted some of the energy that went
>into their programs into learning linear algebra, modern algebra, and
>all that other stuff.  I can remember putting in a lot of time on all
>my courses -- I didn't like putting in all that time so much but I
>considered it necessary, and felt so much better for really
>understanding it.  (Yet, I suppose to someone whose goals are only to
>put out portable, fast code, without understanding why it is portable
>and fast, understanding is of little importance.)
I am suffering through the N years now.  I am doing this to learn "obvious"
things I haven't thought of yet, to find out what obvious things I know
which are wrong, and to make sure I get a job doing interesting programming.
I think that most of us care only about understanding, and the only reason
we would care about portability is because our boss tells us to.  Speed
on the other hand I would consider understanding.  I don't want to write
a slow program, even if it loses lots of readability.  We don't apply
ourselves to other subjects because they don't interest us.  I can bluff
my way through most humanities, but most hackers can not.  They feel that
the extra $ they would make aren't worth the effort of doing something they
don't enjoy, and I agree with them to an extent.  I, unlike most, feel that
the time I put in now won't neccessarily give me a better paying job, but it
will give me a better chance of finding a more enjoyable job which makes
college worth the time.  This is unfortunate since most of my hacker friends
work in fields totally unrelated to computer science, or don't work at all.
A lot of good talent is going to waste because of our present school system,
but no better alternative is obvious so it looks like they just get screwed
by the system.

					Mr. Bill

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