Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 exptools; site whuxlm.UUCP
Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!allegra!whuxlm!dim
From: dim@whuxlm.UUCP (McCooey David I)
Newsgroups: net.games.chess
Subject: Deterministic Chess (Re: Perfect Play?)
Message-ID: <912@whuxlm.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 20-Mar-86 11:13:39 EST
Article-I.D.: whuxlm.912
Posted: Thu Mar 20 11:13:39 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 22-Mar-86 02:21:02 EST
References: <2916@sunybcs.UUCP> <5112@alice.uUCp> <39@paisley.ac.uk>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Whippany
Lines: 30

> IN fact this brings an interesting point...
> For the above scoring method to be valid the game tree MUST be FINITE
> (taken from the first move)
> Ie from an move 1 tere MUST be a forced win for white or a forced
> draw for black.
> The question : IS THERE ?
> If there is not I think that chess might be considered non-deterministic
> in the sense that the only analysis possible is heuristic.

It is still possible, although highly unlikely, that BLACK has a forced
win in chess.  This would be the case if every move that WHITE could
make from the opening position left BLACK with a won game.

Two interesting questions arise from this:

	1. Since there is no way we will ever be able to fully analyze
	   chess, is it possible nonetheless to determine the PROBABILITY
	   of BLACK having a forced win from the opening position?
	   (The same goes for a forced DRAW or for a forced WHITE win.)

	2. Can anyone find a symmetric position (like the opening position)
	   where it is WHITE to move but BLACK has a forced win?  In
	   other words, are there any symmetric zugzwangs for WHITE?
	   (I'm sure there must be some real simple position...)

I would like to hear what other people on the net think of this.

					Dave McCooey
					AT&T Bell Labs, Whippany
					ihnp4!whuxlk!dim