Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84 SMI; site sun.uucp Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!bellcore!decvax!decwrl!sun!falk From: falk@sun.uucp (Ed Falk) Newsgroups: net.games.hack Subject: Opinion poll results - long - spoilers Message-ID: <3377@sun.uucp> Date: Tue, 18-Mar-86 04:38:51 EST Article-I.D.: sun.3377 Posted: Tue Mar 18 04:38:51 1986 Date-Received: Fri, 21-Mar-86 05:37:13 EST Distribution: net Organization: Sun Microsystems, Inc. Lines: 436 Here are the results of the opinion poll I posted last month: WARNING!! Beaucoup spoilers. Parental guidance suggested. Children below the age of level 15 should not watch (unless of course you've been at level 15 for a long time and are sick of it). Well, the results were pretty much as I expected. Cockatrices first, xans second. Slightly surprisingly, Nymphs came in third. The total results were: 1) cockatrices - 14 votes 2) xans - 17 votes 3) Nymphs - 8 votes 4) killer bees - 5 votes 5) Umber hulks - 4 votes 6) Rust monster - 3 votes 7) Dragons - 3 votes 8) Orcs - 2 votes 9) Invisible s.- 2 votes 10) Purple w. - 2 votes 11) Vampires - 2 votes 12) Trolls - 1 vote I listed cockatrices first even though xans got more votes because most of the people who voted for cockatrices said it was the first thing they'd kill, and most of the people who voted for xans said it was the second thing they'd kill. I broke ties by taking into account the priority the voters gave the respective monsters. For instance, the Rust-monster voters said they'd kill them first, third and third respectively whereas the Dragon voters said they'd kill them third, third and fourth. Interestingly, I got a lot of responses right away and then some more later. Almost unanimously, the early respondents said cockatrices first, and the later respondents said other things (xans most notably) first. I don't know if the early responses reflect people who made snap judgements as opposed to people who thought it through; or if the early responses were from people who'd thought the issue out in advance. A few comments follow: ------------------- Cockatrice first. Xan second. Umber Hulk third. It may be tempting to do Dragons, but you will need to eat one for permanent fire resistance..... ------------------- First I would kill the Nymphs, then I would kill the damn Orcs, the billyuns & billyuns of Orcs... ------------------- I think I would zap the orcs first, they're a pain in the a**. maybe cockatrices, second. ------------------- The only swallowing monster I can get rid of is purple worms. After that, I don't think I would genocide anything else. It would take too much fun out of things. By the way, orcs rob shops! ------------------- I kill off xans, usually. Orcs are cannon fodder and real good doggie food; cockatrices can be useful, but xans always get me when i'm down... ------------------- The first thing I use it on is cockatrices - they're overly nasty for the level on which they first appear. Once these babies are gone, you've got a chance to get enough experience to survive the next 10 or so levels. Witness the huge number of cockatrice deaths on early teen levels in the score file, then a gap before more deaths appear in the twenties. I don't genocide anything else BUT cockatrices. The game becomes real boring if you do. One genocide per customer should be enforced. ------------------- What would I genocide first? It probably would depend on what kind of armor and hit points I have. I normally use the following order: 1) xans 2) Umber Hulks 3) Rust Monsters I'd have to think about it some more, but that's pretty much it. Some people seem to want 52 scrolls of genocide, but most of the monsters are more of a nuisance than a threat after a while. ------------------- Depends on what level I'm on. If I'm already safely past the levels with Cockatrices, I save the scroll against a rainy day. ------------------- it all depends on what I go down into the dungeon as. If I go down as a tourist, I'll usually kill off the killer bees first (the first thing I'll meet that's a pain), and then I'd ding cockatrices since gloves are so hard to find... and xans last. If I'm a caveman I'll get rid of xans FIRST. then cockatrices I suppose. As for the others, it's usually xans, then cockytrices (except for knights who LOVE cockytrices...) ------------------- Usually, in the easier levels, I first genocide cocks, then Xans, then Nymphs. The first is just too deadly, but the Xan and Nymph have a nuisance value that can too easily cause you to die of something else. ------------------- The second thing I get rid of is imps, just because they are a nuisance. ------------------- 1. Nymphs - because they steal things 2. Xans - Because they are hard to kill and limit how much I carry 3. Killer bee's - because they swarm and poison ------------------- (1) cockatrices : ALWAYS FIRST (2) xans : usually second (depending on how many potions of speed you have to counteract their attacks on your legs) (3) dragons or umber hulks : If you are fire resistant then umber hulks else dragons - I personally like to genocide things such as - Nymphs , so that can't steal all the stuff i have collected _ Invisible Stalkers , not because they are so tough , but because they are so annoying Never genocide the minotaur (m) , because thy will always leave a wand of digging after you kill them (a minotaur with a wand of digging will always be found on the maze level) One thing to beware of: - chameleons can change into anything !!!, even monsters that have already been genocided.. ------------------- Usually the first thing to go are cockatrices. If I have real good armor (<0), including gloves, and good strength (18+), I would rather risk having them around, since they make such good weapons. ------------------- 1. R unless you have an elven cloak. 2. x unless you have *lots* of food and can wait around indefinitely to be healed. 3. c just on general principles of safety. They're fun to wield, but I've lost lots of good games to them even being pretty careful. Nasty things that should never be genocided: 1. N. Sometimes the *only* way to get rid of things (like ball and chain, cursed levitation ring, etc.) 2. k unless you can't even use more strength and food. 3. D. They're not *that* tough, and you get lots of experience for croaking them. ------------------- And now for some comments of my own: Disclaimer: These are only opinions derived empirically from playing the game. I've never looked at the source code or the rumors file. If you get killed from believing something I told you, don't come crying to me; I'll probably get killed that way too. I used to genocide Orcs first, because they'd gang up on me and I'd always lose. In fact recently, I had just taken my armor off to sell it, and the shop was suddenly filled with Orcs. I died before I got the armor off; no chance to fight back or even enscribe. However, that's a freak occurrence. All you need to do with Orcs is back into a tunnel so that they can only get at you one at a time. I find that they're usually carrying valuables such as armor, weapons, gems and money. If they appear in a shop, it's your lucky day. Back out to the doorway and kill them one by one. They'll leave a pile of gems and other stuff they've stolen from the shop and you can sell it all right back to the shopkeeper. Killer bees are also easy to deal with once you get the knack. If you have strength over 18 or a potion of medicine ("makes you feel great" -- what's it really called?), you can afford to tackle them briefly. Kill the first one by whatever means you have available and eat it. From that point on, you'll be immune to poison. I've also eaten tainted meat twice and lived; I ascribe this to the poison immunity acquired from dead killer bees. I think you'll need poison resistance to survive the game, so it's best to get rid of the bees the hard way. A couple of respondents mentioned that they don't genocide the bees because they want the royal jelly later. Well, it doesn't matter. I've genocided the bees and five levels later found empty rooms full of royal jelly. Imps aren't all that tough, and you can eat them. Usually I'm GLAD to see an imp, 'cause I know where my next meal is coming from. If you're having trouble with imps, you're moving down into the dungeon too fast; take your time and let your experience and hit points grow first. Cockatrices are fun weapons, but FAR too dangerous to handle. One pit or trapdoor and you're history (just like -- no I'd better not say it). When I kill one, I stay FAR away from the corpse until it disappears, just in case I accidentally trip over it or something. On the other hand, I haven't been killed in a fight with one since I learned about enscribing "Elbereth", so they're not all that bad. Generally, if I have gloves, I get the xans first; otherwise cockatrices. Never nuke the Nymphs. Someday you might need one to get a cursed ring of hunger or a ball and chain off of you. Sure they do rob you, but you can always hunt them down and kill them later. Just don't let one near you when you're in a fight, or you could wind up losing your armor. Don't genocide the Wraiths either, they're good for experience points, and they can't hurt you through an elven cloak anyway. Rust monsters can't hurt your armor through an elven cloak. For safety, I remove my gloves/helmet/shield when I'm neer one but I've never actually had them corrode either while wearing a cloak. If you do get caught by a Rust monster without your cloak, take all your armor off. Rust monsters don't hurt you when you're not protected. In general, if you haven't got a cloak by the time you reach the levels with Rust monsters, you won't survive the game anyway. Elven cloaks seem to protect me from Vampires, Wraiths, acid blobs, Rust monsters and all of the other magic nasties down there. So let these monsters alone. If you get attacked by an Invisible stalker, back into a hallway. That way you'll know where the attack is coming from and can fight back. Eating an Invisible stalker gives you intrinsic see-invisible, so you can throw your see-invisible ring away. After that, they'll never be a problem again. Purple worms are the minority of swallowing monsters, so there's not much to gain by nuking them. You can attack a swallowing monster from the inside anyway, so they're not much trouble in the first place. I get swallowed several times per game, and just look at me today. Trolls are just ordinary monsters, and they make a good meal. If you can't handle them, you're playing above (below?) your level. Go back up for a while until you're better equipped to deal with them. The same applies to Umber hulks. Also, if you keep them on the defensive, they don't gaze at you all that much. As for Dragons, if you've got a ring of fire resistance, go for it. If not go back and get one. You MUST have fire resistance to win the game, so you might as well have it intrinsicly. Also, if you never do find a ring, you might be able to find a way to kill a dragon without it and get fire resistance that way. SUMMARY: Save your scrolls for a rainy day. I hate genociding xans and getting killed by a cockatrice on the next level. Somebody asked what you got for eating certain monsters; here's the list of what I know: a: poisonous; rumoured to give some sort of immunity to c's b: makes you sick c: DEADLY d: edible e: edible f: edible g: edible h: poisonous i: edible j: edible k: poisonous; gives you poison immunity. l: edible m: haven't eaten one yet n: haven't eaten one yet o: edible p: edible q: edible r: edible s: poisonous t: gives you teleportation ability u: never killed one v: edible w: edible x: makes you sick y: makes you sick z: edible A: makes you sick B: makes you confused C: edible D: edible, gives you fire resistance E: makes you sick, gives you monster detection when blind F: gives you cold resistance G: edible H: edible I: makes you confused and invisible, gives you see-invisible J: edible K: makes you sick L: gives you teleportation ability M: try it, it's fun N: gives you teleportation ability O: sometimes edible, sometimes makes you sick P: edible? Q: edible R: makes you sick? S: poisonous? T: edible U: makes you sick? V: makes you sick? W: gives you one experience point X: edible Z: edible spinach: increases your strength royal jelly: increases you strength salmon: makes you drop your weapon & rings. Useful for getting rid of cursed things. The ones marked "?" I may have wrong. Poisonous things take a lot of hits and reduce your strength. Things that make you sick take hits. Things that are "Blecch" have little or no nutritional value. Don't eat poisonous things unless you have medicine or natural poison immunity or don't mind the bad effects. Now for some questions of my own: Has anybody ever caught or killed a unicorn? What happens if you eat it? What happens if you eat a dead nurse? What happens if you eat a dead human? A couple of people mentioned potions of speed and royal jelly as safeguards against xans. How does this work? I wasn't paying much attention to the "stuck at level 29 or so" discussion, and now I find I'm stuck there myself. My pick-axe won't get through the floor, so how do I get down? Somebody mentioned making a trapdoor on the level above with the pickaxe, but how do I know that won't just drop me in the maze again? What if I can't find scrolls of teleportation? If you go down by carving holes in the floor, how do you get back up? I assume the ring of levitation is the secret, but how do you find the hole again? Do you have to do the whole rest of the game with teleortation/confusion? How do people cart so much stuff around? Somebody mentioned having 70,000 gold pieces. I never carry more than a few hundred. What good is money besides buying stuff and raising your score? How does it raise your score, do you have to have it on you when the game ends? What good are gems besides selling in shops and giving unicorns? Are unicorns good for anything besides raising your luck? How do you get close enough to a unicorn to give it a gem? I find them to be much too elusive. Why do wands of wishing not always work ("unfortunately, nothing happens")? Does this have something to do with your luck? What does the ring of stealth do? What does the wand of cancellation do? Finally, a hint: drop pieces of gold (one at a time) in the maze levels to keep track of where you've been. -ed falk, sun microsystems