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From: steven@boring.uucp (Steven Pemberton)
Newsgroups: net.nlang
Subject: Re: Proof by citation
Message-ID: <6825@boring.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 12-Mar-86 12:00:52 EST
Article-I.D.: boring.6825
Posted: Wed Mar 12 12:00:52 1986
Date-Received: Sat, 15-Mar-86 22:35:09 EST
References: <235@pttesac.UUCP> <33100034@ISM780.UUCP>
Reply-To: steven@mcvax.UUCP (Steven Pemberton)
Distribution: net
Organization: CWI, Amsterdam
Lines: 37
Apparently-To: rnews@mcvax

In article <6808@boring.UUCPsteven@mcvax.UUCP I wrote:
>Here we go again. Last June I posted an article quoting the Oxford English
>Dictionary, and tens of worthy authors through the ages from the 1300's to
>the present day, who have used 'they', 'them', 'theirs', etc as SINGULAR
>gender-unspecific words. It is CORRECT English. It was only later
>grammarians who tried to enforce the rule that they are plural words, and
>force us to use 'he', etc. Luckily, most people have not followed their
>dictates.
[Here followed 113 lines of citations.]

In article <970@h-sc1.UUCPriggsby@h-sc1.UUCP (andrew riggsby) writes:
> There is, I think, a flaw in the way this point is argued here. [...]
> The first is that even if a given word is acceptable among the poets
> (for instance, Shakespeare), it may not be so in prose. [...]
> Similarly, some constructions may be allowed in poetry but not in prose
> (This is generally not so much of a problem in English, but it does
> happen.)  The second problem is that, of course, languages vary over time.

My aim in posting was twofold: firstly to demonstrate that this use of
'they' etc. was not 'illiterate' as someone claimed, but has been used by
some very literate writers, secondly to show that it is not some recent
corruption of the language, but has been in continuous use since the
beginning of the English language.

> Note that in addition to supporting Mr. Pemberton's position on
> the he/she/they issue, the quotations he cites also contain the forms
> "persone","twayne","forsaketh", "fell a laughing", and "Iche mon in thayre
> degre."  These were all well and good in their time (the quotations range
> from the fourteenth century to 1898, only one is from the last 100 years),
> but I would question their importance to the question at hand.  It might be
> argued that since the OED was published early in this century, it is
> necessariy restricted to the 1800's and before.

And that is why at the end of the quotations, I included some from recent
use, to show that it still good use.

Steven Pemberton, CWI, Amsterdam