Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site uscvax.UUCP Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!cbosgd!ukma!psuvm.bitnet!psuvax1!burdvax!sdcrdcf!uscvax!baparao From: baparao@uscvax.UUCP (Bapa Rao) Newsgroups: net.nlang.india Subject: Re: Brain Drain Message-ID: <47@uscvax.UUCP> Date: Sat, 22-Mar-86 20:45:44 EST Article-I.D.: uscvax.47 Posted: Sat Mar 22 20:45:44 1986 Date-Received: Tue, 25-Mar-86 04:46:58 EST References: <614@philabs.UUCP> <633@epistemi.UUCP> Reply-To: baparao@usc-cse.UUCP (Bapa Rao) Organization: CS&CE Depts, U.S.C., Los Angeles, CA Lines: 140 Summary: A flame, and something constructive. In article <633@epistemi.UUCP> mukesh@epistemi.UUCP (Mukesh Patel) writes: >In article <614@philabs.UUCP> >>> According to the Dean of Undergraduate Affairs at >>> IIT Delhi, Prof. Ray, "the Indian government must >>> do something to tackle with this problem... We >>> can ask students seeking admission to the IITs to >>> sign a bond to serve the nation for a minimum >>> period of 10 years. > >I have no idea by how much the Indian state subsidises these students' >education but surely there can be nothing wrong in a country demanding >that its graduates having taken advantage of the system do their >bit for it. Ali's comment > The IITs are HEAVILY subsidized. A very rough ballpark figure per year (in rupees) Academic staff: (including professors, and support staff) 10 professor-years per group of 50 students gives 10 x 36000/50 = 7200 General engineering equipment (estimating approx. 1 oscilloscope-equivalent per student per year -- I didn't actually go out and price an oscilloscope, I guess it would cost around the same as a good color TV): 5000 I left out computer system acquisition and maintenance costs altogether. Also left out general maintenance and overhead associated with the institute's buildings, security, and so on. Conservatively, this works out to Rs. 12000 or so per student per year, which is Rs. 60,000 for 5 year B.Tech., probably about the same for the more intense 4 year B.Tech., since it would seem that the amount of training given to the students in the latter is actually improved (and hence more expensive: I don't know of any big breakthrough in improving efficiency of teaching at engineering schools). When I went to IIT, tuition was Rs. 200 per year, I paid a total of Rs. 1000 for my entire engineering education, which is BETWEEN 1 AND 2 PERCENT OF THE ACTUAL COST. I am pretty sure that my estimate is very conservative. I expect the real figure to be below 1%. >It also fattens ones bank balance. Let's call a spade a spade. I bet >about 90% of you expats would not mind working in India if only the >pay was comparable to US. > Yup. Tell it like it is. >You got it! That's why the "learned professor" would like to >see you lot stick around in India to do your bit for YOUR country. ... >So when is your bit of 18% going to go over and repay the Indian >Govt? Perhaps the issue is whether you care enough about India >and its people rather than whether you should repay anything to >the Indian Govt. The Govt, I am sure Ali is well aware, raises the >money from the people with which it then educates a small elite >who more often than not simply packs up and buggers off to foreign >lands because there is no PERSONAL advantages to be gained by >remaining behind once they get their first/second degrees. > >I am surprised that these students fail to notice that in providing them >with the best education and facilities that India can afford the >country as a whole makes sacrifices in other areas such as medical >care and primary education. A lot of politicians and academic >stomach the elitism of further education in India in the hope that >the product of it could be deployed to improve the lot of the >rest of the less fortunate population. > >Instead of which the Indian people get a kick in the balls which >is what remarks like the following add up to. [ Remarks deleted ] [Flame on] Make no mistake, babies die of malnutrition and childhood diseases, grow up retarded, underclass youths get substandard education or no education at all and grow up to be frustrated losers who frequently riot, and one reason is that WE are able to live well and occassionally jerk off on the net with highfalutin intellectual chitchat about how ignorant and backward our compatriots "back home" are. It is good once in a while to see someone like Mukesh Patel lay it on the line. Not that this will give us hypocrites more than a good laugh. I doubt that there is anyone out there (self included) who actually lays awake nights, tossing and turning from the pangs of guilt arising from our SYSTEMATIC AND THOUGHTLESS PLUNDER OF THE NATION'S FUTURE. [Flame off] A possible solution to the problem might be to actually stop the subsidies and charge the students a realistic tuition for their college education, with the government providing loans and scholarships to deserving and needy aspirants (sort of like the student loan program in the U.S.). No one leaves until he/she has paid back what he/she owes the government, plus interest. If there is no realistic possibility of repaying a loan of Rs. 60000 over a reasonable period of time with a salary of Rs. 2000 a month and still make ends meet, the government should be allowed to take it out of your hide, by giving you credit for employing your engineering and other skills in community-development related projects side-by-side with your actual 40 hour a week job or whatever. An extension of the idea would involve the setting up of a Rural Development Administration (outfits like that are already in place, but I don't know to what extent they actively seek to involve college students and graduates who don't actually choose to go into government service and end up, usually to their horror, in the boonies) which lets you work off your loan during (e.g., over summer vacation) and immediately following your education, in development projects in the countryside. Note that I am deliberately ruling out the possibility of making dollars abroad and remitting those to pay off the student loan: this is contrary to the spirit of my approach, since India should not be in the business of manufacturing cheap, high-quality engineering graduates for export. That is no business at all: can anyone hoping to stay in business afford to sell off his plant equipment, even at a profit? Yet that is exactly what India is doing right now. A side benefit of this approach would be to provide the educational establishment the feedback needed to assess the relevance of the educational system to national development needs. The precise skills and training that are appropriate to specific classes of developmental tasks and which are lacking in the existing approach, can be identified in the field (as it were). In addition to keeping higher education costs down and helping national development and aiding the design of an appropriate educational system, the above approach would also benefit the young middle and upper-middle class Indian by getting him/her more closely involved with the community and the "real" nation at large, and let him identify more closely with his/her society. I have in mind not just the phoren-oriented, but also the bulk of Indian middle class youths (who are still in India) and lead a generally humdrum and unfulfilling life (No flames, that's just my impression.) and are alienated from the "real" India. Regarding the overall effect of this approach on brain drain, at worst it can be expected to mitigate its effects. In the best case, it might reduce it to a trickle. It just might be that if one is deeply involved with, and committed to, his/her people, it is more difficult to just up and leave. --Bapa Rao.