Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP Posting-Version: version B 2.10.3 4.3bsd-beta 6/6/85; site ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Path: utzoo!watmath!clyde!burl!ulysses!ucbvax!brahms!weemba From: weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Matthew P. Wiener) Newsgroups: net.physics Subject: The death of bogus physics Message-ID: <12603@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> Date: Sun, 23-Mar-86 18:19:06 EST Article-I.D.: ucbvax.12603 Posted: Sun Mar 23 18:19:06 1986 Date-Received: Tue, 25-Mar-86 03:42:48 EST Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: weemba@brahms.BERKELEY.EDU (Matthew P. Wiener) Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 90 I'd like to apologize to Jim Giles for getting nasty with him. I guess I just wasn't making myself clear at first. Also, I ended up bringing my copy of MTW in from home to the office, which for me is a two mile walk these days. Strange and inaccurate versions of general relativity seem to be rather common: once it got its myth of incomprehensibility, comprehension was no longer a requirement for speaking about it. A good way to clear out the educational system's brainwashing efforts here is to read Albert Einstein's original works on the subject. They shine with a crystal clearness with no one's muddy simplifications to hide the true beauty of general relativity. (And Pais _Subtle is the Lord_ is a fine guidebook to these originals.) From "Die Grundlage der allgemeinen Relativitaetstheorie", _Annalen der Physik_, 49, 1916 (from the Dover paperback translation): Of all imaginable spaces ... in any kind of motion relatively to one another, there is none which we may look upon as privileged a priori.... THE LAWS OF PHYSICS MUST BE OF SUCH A NATURE THAT THEY APPLY TO SYSTEMS OF REFERENCE IN ANY KIND OF MOTION. [p 113] This view of space and time [that space and time coordinates have intrinsic physical meaning] has alway been in the minds of physicists.... But we shall now show that we must put it aside and replace it by a more general view, in order to be able to carry through the postulate of general relativity.... In a space which is free of gravitational fields we introduce a Galilean system of reference K(x,y,z,t) and also a system of co-ordinates K'(x',y',z',t') in uniform rotation relatively to K. Let the origins of both systems, as well as their axes of Z, permanently coincide. We shall show that for a space-time measurement in the system K' the above definition of the physical meaning of length and times cannot be maintained. [Because of special relativity, the circumference is measured by contracted rods and so seems longer, so the spatial geometry is not Euclidean. Clocks too are our position dependent in K'. [Editorial comment here: I earlier posted a remark that fake gravity induced by accelerations cannot change the geometry. The point is that while only mass-energy can alter the space-time geometry, different coordinate choices CAN alter your spatial geometry. It is the frame chooser's responsibility to make sure he knows what he is doing, not Einstein's.] We therefore reach this result:--In the general theory of relativity, space and time cannot be defined in such a way that differences of the spatial co-ordinates can be directly measured by the unit measuring-rod, or differences in the time co-ordinate by a standard clock. The method hitherto employed for laying co-ordinates ... breaks down.... So there is nothing for it but to regard all imaginable systems of co-ordinates, on principle, as equally suitable for the description of nature. This comes to requiring that:-- THE GENERAL LAWS OF NATURE ARE TO BE EXPRESSED BY EQUATIONS WHICH HOLD GOOD FOR ALL SYSTEMS OF CO-ORDINATES, THAT IS, ARE CO-VARIANT WITH RESPECT TO ANY SUBSTITUTIONS WHATEVER (GENERALLY CO-VARIANT). [pp 115-117] [In choosing among co-ordinate systems], there is no immediate reason for preferring certain systems of co-ordinates to others. [p 117] From _The Meaning of Relativity_, fifth edition: The case that we have been considering [K and K' in relative rotation] is analogous to that which is presented in the two-dimensional treatment of surfaces. It is impossible in the latter case also, to introduce co-ord- inates on a surface (eg the surface of an ellipsoid) which have a simple metrical significance, while on a plane the Cartesion co-ordinates, x1, x2, signify directly lengths measured by a unit measuring rod. Gauss overcame this difficulty, in his theory of surfaces, by introducing curvilinear co-ordinates which, apart from satisfying conditions of continuity, were wholly arbitrary, and only afterwards these co-ordinates were related to the metrical properties of the surface. In an analogous way we shall introduce int he general theory of relativity arbitrary co-ordinates, x1, x2, x3, x4, which shall number uniquely the space-time points, so that neighbouring events are associated with neighbouring values of the co-ord- inates; otherwise the choice of co-ordinates is arbitrary. We shall be true to the principle of relativity in its broadest sense if we give such a form to the laws that they are valid in every such four-dimensional system of co-ordinates, that is, if the equations expressing the laws are co-variant with respect to arbitrary transformations. [p 61] ----------------------------------------------------------------------- As a final point, the assertion that most frames in general relativity are local Lorentz frames is just plain false. Off the top of my head there are Schwarzschild, Reissner-Nordstrom, Kerr, Boyer-Linquist, Kruskal-Szekeres, Taub-NUT, plane wave, de Sitter, anti-de Sitter, Roberston-Walker, Godel, and mixmaster coordinate systems, and not one of them is a local Lorentz frame! It is true that the theoretical justification of certain points is easier to do with calculations in a local Lorentz frame. So keep reading MTW Jim, you'll get to the good stuff eventually. ucbvax!brahms!weemba Matthew P Wiener/UCB Math Dept/Berkeley CA 94720